VANITY: Respite from the Echo Chamber

Selft | Dec. 30, 2009 | Bill Compton

[BillCompton]

I used the think the acrimony between Mitchel, Dole, Foley, Gingrich, etc. was bitter. No more. They at least talked to each other.

I used to think that the arguments I used to get into with my liberal friends were heated. No more. I don't ever talk to liberals anymore.

Now the bitter fights I have are with people on my side of most arguments; my natural political allies. And the feelings engendered by these debates make me just as mad as the old ones I had with Democrats.

There is something going on that I do not believe is good for America and the American culture and it is probably what the Internet inevitably means: self-selecting hyper association. Here are some specifics.

5 years ago, Free Republic was a much nicer place. I was proud that people of good faith on the other side of an issue could come here and debate. Sure there were trolls. They were banned. Then near-Trolls. Then disagreeable posters. Democratic Underground was always like that. We weren't.

I just visited Little Green Footballs in an ongoing, but casual effort to try and understand how Charles Johnson's views pivoted so completely. It is interesting to me. I used to go there often in the aftermath of Rathergate and Charles was a kind of Folk Hero to me. I never happened to be on his site when Registration would open (closed again.) I don't think I would be welcome there anymore. He just did a posting on the Discover Institute getting kicked out of a Venue where they wanted to show an IMAX movie on Darwin's Dilemma. He speaks harshly about the Discover Institute and "goes to town" on them. Fair enough. We are all entitled to our points of view. The thing that bothered me was there were no dissenting views in the 200+ posts (that I saw.) Here in Freeper-land, you could at least get two sides of that issue: Rationalist/Secular Humanist vs God Squad/Rational Religious/Space Alien believers. It is a fascinating subject to me and I have followed it for years. But there is no discussion at LGF.

Where can someone go now days to respectfully engage in a give and take with people of good will who are left/liberal? Does such a place exist? It seems like the only way you can actually crossover and communicate in those circles is to pull an Ariana Huffington, David Brock, Andrew Sullivan, Charles Johnson?

See, I think that we conservatives can learn a lot of important stuff from the people on the other side of the isle (if I could borrow that term.) I was born in 1961, but if I had been 20 years old at the time, I am thinking I would have been a Kennedy supporter. I never liked Nixon or Agnew (my parents loved both). I now think that Ford was bad for Republicans (I kind of liked him at the time.) For me, Reagan changed everything. But over those years, the Democrats were responsible for some good things. Thanks to Democrats, I don't worry that the things I buy will kill my kids (lawn darts, etc.) Cars are safer. Big business tries very hard not to kill people (because it would cost them so much money.) Libertarians, but mostly big-business Republicans were on the wrong side of these issues. Now, of course, the lawyer thing has swung too far and we all pay the price. But we did get something out of it.

Today, weirdly, there is no venue that isn't obviously self-selected and like minded for honest Lincoln-Douglas debate to happen. Do you guys understand why the New York Times takes so long to cover a story like Van Jones or the Acorn scandal? THEY DON'T READ ANY OF THE SAME THINGS WE DO. They don't just not cover it out of bias, they literally don't know about it. They don't watch Fox News and they don't read the Wall Street Journal. How bizarre is that? But I wonder how many around here make a habit of reading the Times or visiting Huffington Post? We don't. Instead we search for people who think like us and then we lower the glass bubble and hear only enough outside the bubble for us to conclude that we are right and they are bad and stupid and wrong. In that way, I guess we are all alike.

[BenLurkin]

Rationalist/Secular Humanist vs God Squad/Rational Religious/Space Alien believers.

Looking to pick a fight are ya'?

;^)

[Mount Athos]

Wow I couldn’t disagree more with you.

Conservatives read LOTS of liberal publications.
We have to, it’s everywhere!
Way more than leftists read conservative writing.

[Rebelbase]

[ClearCase_guy]

I'm confused by your post. One of the great things about Free Republic is that I can come here and read articles from the NYT or the Boston Globe. I can see what MSNBC or CNN are saying. I can find plenty of worshipful articles about both Obamas.

I feel I am well informed about both sides of most political issues. And I enjoy making fun of the idiots on the Left who have no clue what Conservatives think on any issue at all.

We're well-informed. They are not. Just curious -- have you also posted this to a site like DU? I'd be interested in their opinion. Do you think they'd be receptive?

[MARTIAL MONK]

OK, who cut the cheese?

[Enosh]

Are you saying the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn’t real?

[rhombus]

Thanks to Democrats, I don't worry that the things I buy will kill my kids (lawn darts, etc.) Cars are safer. )

Was the Corvair really less safe than the Smartcar?

[ponygirl]

I don’t need to go looking for liberal viewpoints... They’re in my face every single day. A few months ago I decided to watch The Office for the first time just to see what all the fuss was about. I got treated to a diatribe about how backwards we are because we don’t have cradle to grave healthcare. It’s a stupid tv show! I stopped listening to my local Top 40 station because the stupid deejay wouldn’t shut his yap about George Bush... Who has been out of office for almost a year now! This stuff is shoved at us 24/7 and you ask why people are selective in their choice of reading material?

[rockrr]

I can agree with a few of your observations Bill, but I don’t agree with your conclusions. I continue to engage lefties all the time. It is universally an exercise in futility because of the balkanization that has occurred but I do so to keep my arguments sharp.

Oh, and nancy-boy charles isn’t engaging in “crossover and communication” he is insane. Nothing that I care to emulate.

[BillCompton]

Looking to pick a fight are ya'?

I have had those fights here before. Just curious, what did you take issue with?

[Little Ray]

Actually, the NYT doesn’t cover stuff like Van Jones or ACORN ‘cause they don’t see anything wrong them, not because of the what they read. It isn’t news and therefore not “fit to print.”
Come to think of it, isn’t it in their job description to go out and FIND stories, not sit back and “read” stuff?

[BillCompton]

Conservatives read LOTS of liberal publications.

The argument does work one way better than the other (libs are much less likely to read conservative stuff.) But generally, do you read liberal stuff? Where?

[SW6906]

FR used to have real good, involved debates about subjects with people bringing up all sides of an issue. Yes, in the middle of that were the occasional people making snide comments and rude objections. Now, it seems you have to wade through a LOT more chaff to get to the wheat on threads.

And I've been here daily since 1998, so I've seen the changes.

We still get good debates with many different sides weighing in, but not as deep of discussions as we used to.

What is unique about FR is that we post articles "from the other side" (as well as our own) and discuss them. Not so much on the liberal sites.......

[I see my hands]

BillCompton

"Big business tries very hard not to kill people (because it would cost them so much money.) Libertarians, but mostly big-business Republicans were on the wrong side of these issues."

If you think self interest is the wrong side of an issue then think again.

[SW6906]

"But generally, do you read liberal stuff? Where?"

Right here on FR!

[DaveTesla]

“Where can someone go now days to respectfully engage in a give and take with people of good will who are left/liberal?”

The spawn of the communist party (Satan) are people of good will??

“Do you guys understand why the New York Times takes so long to cover a story like Van Jones or the Acorn scandal? THEY DON'T READ ANY OF THE SAME THINGS WE DO.”

Why would The NYT who have been COMMUNIST propagandists
(long before Walter Duranty) print anything negative
about one of their ilk???
They didn't do it with Stalin or Castro, why would they
be different in regards to Acorn Van Jones et al?

Ill give you a clue....
We don't want to be slaves under a global, unelected, tyrannistic, unaccountable rat rulers whilst living
in the village of Sodom and Gomorrah.

That's why!

(Your joking right?)

[reagan_fanatic]

I have to say that I agree with a lot of your points. On the other hand, the reason that you find so many Conservatives bitter is because we are constantly getting pushed aside by our own party in favor of weak-kneed milktoast RINOS, sh*t upon by 90% of the media and left by the side of the road by a largely ignorant public enamored by a political system that’s become nothing more than a political version of American Idol.

It’s too bad we’ve come to this, but a lot of us are bitter and angry, and we have very good reason for being so.

[ClearCase_guy]

But generally, do you read liberal stuff? Where?

On every network news station.
At the doctor's office (Time and Newsweek).
At the dentist's office (Time and Newsweek).
On the cover of every magazine at the drug store.
At the airport (CNN 24/7)
When I talk to my neighbor.

And here on Free Republic where so much of the above is gathered together and discussed and ridiculed.

[JustaDumbBlonde]

"We still get good debates with many different sides weighing in, but not as deep of discussions as we used to."

Agreed. Plus, the almost boilerplate name-calling insults that erupt when some folks run out of reason and logic is also growing. (go back to DU, you're a troll, you must be an Obama voter ... those are all too common when you could actually knock down an argument with facts)