Personal Mandate to Buy Health Insurance Is Unprecedented and Unconstitutional.

Obama in Presidential debate 1/31/2008 saying mandates don't work:

OBAMA: I don't see those folks. And I think that it is important for us to recognize that if, in fact, you are going to mandate the purchase of insurance and it's not affordable, then there's going to have to be some enforcement mechanism that the government uses. And they may charge people who already don't have health care fines, or have to take it out of their paychecks. And that, I don't think, is helping those without health insurance. That is a genuine difference.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/31 /dem.debate.transcript/index.html

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

if, under those powers, Congress can require everyone to purchase health insurance, then everyone must pay exactly the same.

IOW unemployed 20 year old college students in perfect health would be required to pay the same for their health insurance as 50 year old billionaires with emphysema and heart failure; and... there can only be one plan.

The fascist dictator carpetbagger Mitt Romney chortles
as he inflicts a government mandate for socialized medicine (HillaryCARE=ROmneyCARE).

Sen. John Kerry to Don Imus on RomneyCARE=HillaryCARE: "I like this health care bill".

Sen. Hillary Clinton on RomneyCARE=HillaryCARE: "To come up with a bipartisan plan in this polarized environment is commendable."

FLASHFORWARD: TODAY:

PROOF RomneyCARE is a Disaster (and Romney is utterly clueless)

“Health Care Speechwriter for Edwards, Obama & Clinton Now Without Health Insurance”
I'm a critic because what Washington is talking about doing
has made health insurance unaffordable in Massachusetts.

“Small businesses bridle at health insurance hikes (Romneycare strangles Mass. businesses)
some really bad news from Blue Cross-Blue Shield: His company’s health insurance rates are going up 47 percent in January.”

“ Rationing medicine has already begun
… government-
run health care has introduced rationing and waiting lists and cost the lives of the people under its provisions.”

“DEATH PANELS OPEN FOR BUSINESS IN MASSACHUSETTS”

“President Obama's newly confirmed regulatory czar defended the
possibility of removing organs from terminally ill patients without their permission.”

“You can’t reap these savings without limiting patients’ choices in some way," said Paul Levy, CEO of Beth Israel Deaconess.”

“State plan may place limits on patients’ hospital options( Mass. RomneyCare )”

"Romney Visits Nebraska, Talks Health Care [where he defends Romneycare] “

"Paying the Health Tax in Massachusetts [Romneycare]
Massachusetts requires every resident to have health insurance, and this
year, without informing us directly, the state had changed the rules in a way that made
our bare-bones policy no longer acceptable. Unless we ponied up for a pricier policy we
neither need nor want—or enrolled in a government-sponsored insurance plan—we
would have to pay $1,000 each year to the state.
How did we become outlaws? “

"National Health Preview - The Massachusetts debacle, coming soon to your neighborhood."
It was only a matter of time.
They're trying to manage the huge costs of the subsidized middle-class insurance program that is gradually swallowing the state budget.
The program provides low- or no-cost coverage to about 165,000 residents, or three-fifths of the newly insured, and is budgeted at $880 million for 2010, a 7.3% single-year increase that is likely to be optimistic.
The state's overall costs on health programs have increased by 42% (!) since 2006."

A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State’s ‘Grand Experiment’ Fails [RomneyCare]
"Initiated on Mr. Romney’s gubernatorial watch in 2006, this “experiment” has fallen on hard times, and predictably so. “

Health care in Massachusetts: a warning for America [Romney brings Mass. to its knees]
The Bay State's mandatory insurance law is raising costs, limiting access, and lowering care.
Three years ago, Massachusetts adopted a plan requiring all residents to purchase health
insurance, with state subsidies for lower-income residents. But rather than creating a
utopia of high-quality affordable healthcare, the result has been the exact opposite –
skyrocketing costs, worsened access, and lower quality care."

"‘Severe’ doc shortage seen hiking wait time
“The shortage is getting more severe”"

“Health costs to rise again.( RomneyCare )
The state’s major health insurers plan to raise premiums by about 10 percent next year,
prompting many employers to reduce benefits and shift additional costs to workers.”

“Nation’s ill-advised to follow Mass. plan [Health plan a failure]
September 17, 2009 The canary is dead.
Massachusetts, the model for the ObamaCare universal insurance plan, is the canary in
the health care coal mine. Yesterday, its obit appeared on the front page of both The Wall
Street Journal and The Boston Globe-Democrat “

"Bay State Insurance Premiums Highest in Country - Boston Globe August 22, 2009
Massachusetts has the most expensive family health insurance premiums in the country,
according to a new analysis that highlights the state’s challenge in trying to rein in medical costs
40 percent higher than in 2003. Over the same period, premiums nationwide rose an average of 33 percent..."

"Massachusetts: the laboratory for ObamaCare“

"Massachusetts' Obama-like reforms increase health costs, wait times [RomneyCare]
Premiums are growing 21 to 46 percent faster than the national average"

"Mass. Pushes Rationing to Control Universal Healthcare Costs (RomneyCare)
A 10-member Massachusetts state healthcare advisory board unanimously recommended
that the state begin rationing healthcare to keep the state’s marquee universal health care program afloat financially.”

"1,000 cancer patients 'refused treatment'"

"Massachusetts Universal Healthcare System Breaking Down Already
ERs in Massachusetts have not seen a downturn in visits. On the contrary, it seems that ER visits are actually on the upswing in the Bay State. In fact, in 2007 they were higher than the national average by 20 percent...”

"Hospital patients 'left in agony'"

"National Health Preview - The Massachusetts debacle, coming soon to your neighborhood.
In Massachusetts's latest crisis,
They're trying to manage the huge costs of the subsidized middle-class insurance program that is gradually swallowing the state budget.
The program provides low- or no-cost coverage to about 165,000 residents, or three-fifths of the newly insured, and is budgeted at $880 million for 2010, a 7.3% single-year increase that is likely to be optimistic.
The state's overall costs on health programs have increased by 42% (!) since 2006
Mr. Romney should have known better before signing on to this not-so-grand experiment, especially since the state's "free market" reforms that he boasts about have proven to be irrelevant when not fictional.
Only 21,000 people have used the "connector" that was supposed to link individuals to private insurers."

A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State’s ‘Grand Experiment’ Fails [RomneyCare]
… fiscal troubles aplenty within Repubican Mitt Romney’s brainchild, Massachusetts’ “grand experiment” in “universal” health care."
"Initiated on Mr. Romney’s gubernatorial watch in 2006, this “experiment” has fallen on hard times, and predictably so.
Even though the Bay State commenced its program with a far smaller percentage of uninsured residents than exists nationwide,
“RomneyCare” is threatening to bankrupt the state.“

"Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry"

"Romney’s mistreatments a sick man, as Gov. Mitt Romney meets a medical marijuana patient"

Social Security was called Unconstitutional when it was instituted but we have it today. I’m not sure what court challenges were mounted against Roosevelt’s Social Security

Are not we already mandated to buy Medicare?

I don't think it is required, but stupid to not buy it, since unless you are independently wealthy no one else will touch you without it.

Supreme court will strike down.

Isn't that what GW said about CFR? Just sayin.....

After a while, Congress, so that it doesn’t have to be involved, will authorize private companies to tax you.

You may not have noticed but they have been doing that for years, by allowing hospitals and doctors to overcharge people with insurance in order to cover the expense of people with no insurance. It is a well known fact that most in these forums conveniently overlook. Not saying it is right, just that it is a fact I have known about since the early fifties.

Totally different. All, private, business have to cover costs. All lose money on some customers, or service and those have to be picked up by those customers that do not cause them to lose money.

What has happened is that the Doctors, hospitals, and private paying patients have been involuntarily made to either work against their will, and uncompensated, or in the customers view....made to pay for others medical service.

You could think as the dragooning of citizens into forced private contracts is just the final closing of the net that has long entrapped Doctors, hospitals and paying patients.

By the way, I roughly figure patients pay, or their companies or insurance.....three times more. Once for government by various bureaucracies, rules and regulations driving up costs. Once again for being FORCED to pay for other’s, and of course your normal buying/costs as you would in a normal business that has not been so warped, distorted such that no one knows what true, free( ish ) economy prices would be in a liberated medical service economy.

I’m some what conflicted on whether to let the socialists have their way, as I think a good beating down of a couple of generations would be the quickest way to teach the failures of leftism.

I had a procedure done once at it was like $8,000. I asked the why it was so expensive. He replied - “Because we already have socialized health care, and don’t let anybody fool you otherwise”. (This was 10+ years ago!). I said huh? He said that the low amounts he gets paid by medicare, patients that don’t/can’t pay, etc. he needs to charge more for folks that can. I asked him what the price “should” be. He said about $2,500.

Let’s say that just gov rules, laws, lawyers, even the Doctors guild like strangle hold on practicing medicine, doubles costs.

Which I think is fair.

Well, they also double the cost of people that don’t pay.

So, maybe, working backwards, and towards free market prices, that 8 thousand dollar procedure out to be half, and halfed again, which would be 2 thousand.

So, the Doctors statement to you sounds ball park right.

Just think of how many could thus afford, somehow, the prices if they were one quarter of what they are now?.

Just think how much insurance premiums would drop?

But no.

I know that when I was in Law School reading the Constitution was not a requirement of my Constitutional Law classes. I was required to read Supreme Court "Opinions" on what the Constitution said, but at no time were we ever required to read nor were we ever tested on the actual language of the Constitution.

That's funny, now that I think of it, it was basically the same for me. Of course, my Con-law prof spoke English as a fourth language so he could have assigned it and we never would have known.

Totally different. All, private, business have to cover costs.

Well you didn't make clear how it was totally different, and I don't think it is. It is just the manner used currently and will be replaced by something the Government can have complete control over.

Our government doesn't have to cover cost, or even tax to cover cost, or borrow.

It just orders you to work, for free.

This is classic slavery.

They call it ‘Mandate’.

I'm not aware of any business that can order you, against your will, or contract, to work.

I'm not aware of any business that can order you, against your will, or contract, to work.

I was not aware that, that was the point of discussion, but. Business may not be able to force you to do anything against your will, but some businesses do have control over things that are necessary for life.

If you have an insurance policy then you can choose not to pay the premium, and as long as you have the money to do otherwise, then everything works fine, but if you are not independently wealthy then maybe you might just suck up and pay the premium, be it overpriced or not.

You suffer under the delusion that no one can force you to do anything, but they can certainly steer the ship on which you are riding, and where it goes, you go. I know you can always jump overboard, but then the just post a no swimming sign.

Social Security was challenged in Helvering v. Davis, 1937.

This was the granddaddy for the abuse of the General Welfare clause.

"The Dirty Dozen" is a book by Levy/Mellor, 2008. Most all of the judicial outrages since FDR are explained there.

The day the feds try to make me buy anything under penalty of fine and imprisonment ,is the day when emigration will happen to this mans family.

The feds can kiss my a$$.

Thanks...looks like Social Security was able to get past that major court challenge to its Constitutionality. Obama-care will do it too probably. Not that it’s right. The courts are just too rigged liberally

Unless the Supreme Court would rule immediately without years of appeals. The Supreme Court is fairly conservative at the moment

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:wnf2-UqMr68J:www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/attarian7.html+%22Helvering+v.+Davis%22&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The Supreme Court was pressured into ruling in favor of Social Security by a megalomaniac dictator named FDR

They know its unconstitutional but they don't care.

Maybe they don't know its unconstitutional. What matters is the voter reaction next November, assuming SCOTUS cans this crap. I thought the authors did a pretty convincing job of why SCOTUS will rule that it's unconstitutional.