Posted on 12/07/2009 7:25:33 AM PST by oblomov
Introductory Remarks:
On December 7, 1941, U.S. military installations at Pearl Harbor in Hawaii were attacked by the Imperial Japanese Navy. Could this tragic event that resulted in over 3,000 Americans killed and injured in a single two-hour attack have been averted?
After 16 years of uncovering documents through the Freedom of Information Act, journalist and historian Robert Stinnett charges in his book, Day of Deceit, that U.S. government leaders at the highest level not only knew that a Japanese attack was imminent, but that they had deliberately engaged in policies intended to provoke the attack, in order to draw a reluctant, peace-loving American public into a war in Europe for good or ill. In contrast, historian and author Stephen Budiansky (see his book, Battle of Wits) believes that such charges are entirely unfounded and are based on misinterpretations of the historical record.
It’s been often said that “Truth is the first casualty of war.” Historians and policy experts now know that the official government claims, including those made by U.S. Presidents, that led to the Spanish-American War, World War I, Vietnam War, Gulf War, and other conflicts were deliberate misrepresentations of the facts in order to rally support for wars that the general public would otherwise not support. Was this also the case regarding the tragedy at Pearl Harbor and the U.S. entry into World War II—or are such charges false? We are very pleased to provide a debate between these two distinguished experts.
(Excerpt) Read more at independent.org ...
A. At the Atlantic Charter meeting with Churchill, FDR agrees to "armed support" should the Japanese move beyond the Isthmus of Kra to protect British (e.g., Hong Kong, Singapore) and Dutch (Java) colonies, if they each join an oil embago against Japan - making such an embargo worldwide. They each agree.
The Dutch "rang the bell" on 5Dec41 - FDR stalled, and stalled, ... Congress only learns of this "unconstitutional" deal at the Pearl Harbor hearings .
B. The tale of the three-goats, particularly Kemp Tolley's effort to get Hart's "yatch" to become a US war-of-war and sortie out of Manila as a defensive information patrol.
Those dots, those darn dots, ...
For example, Kahn 1967 text The Codebreakers - The Story of Secret Writing has "... Cavite (sic Corregidor) was spottily reading JN25 messages ..."
NSA historians Gish and Parker each say "some" meassages were read, you might excuse "schedules" as intelligence - I, for one, would not.
Another example, Safford, in his Exhibit No. 151, has the US exchanging technical information and "translations" with the British. That is, translations of Japanese into English.
Wilford has STATION CAST establishing a section to link "C.I." and "R.I." materials together, ...
The above are just from American sources; the British and Australian Archives also have relevant matterials.
Or, perhaps, George Kennan’s “Domino Theory” in full display.
See Safford's Index to Magic Signal traffic - you might find a very short and terse comment; it makes clear the interpretation at the time.
Said interpretation is reinforced by FDR's repeating same when he meets with US Congressional leaders the night of 7Dec41.
These papers told the Japanese that the British Far East Fleet would be no threat at all to their moves south; the British were stretched too thin to support such an effort.
Additionally, in Professor Chapman's The Price of Admiralty, the Japanese concerns, as a result of having these papers, were concentrated on the US naval forces - those especially at Pearl Harbor.
This capture of documents is only made known after WWII had ended - the Canadians in particular were not happy.
Finally, the German Naval Attache in Tokyo got a very rare Japanese sword for his assistance in the matter.
As with most wars, it was about the money.
“So what did World War II accomplish for the Illuminati? With the Japanese prepared to surrender in February, 1945, the war was prolonged in order to destroy much of the industrial areas of Japan with a devastating air attack of incendiary and atomic bombs. This allowed the ground to be cleared for the Illuminati to rebuild Japan with new industries so they could use cheap labor to flood the American market with cheaply manufactured goods. This would turn the United States into a nation that consumed more than it produced, creating unemployment and financial instability.
As stated previously, on the European front, the War enabled the Russians to gain control of Eastern Europe, promoted Communism, paved the way for the United Nations, and the creation of the nation of Israel.
At a cost of about $400 billion, the War raised our National Debt to $220 billion, and pushed us deeper into the clutches of the Illuminati’s international bankers. Because of all the intricate angles involved in this conflict, it would not be an understatement to say that World War II was probably the most costly event in American history. We may have won, but in the long run, we lost.”
http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=FinalWarn06-3
If it were true that the IJN code was broken in the PI before Pearl, then that makes McArthur’s preparations look even worse. It doesn’t add up.
McArthur DID have access to intel from diplomatic decrypts that was not available to Short & Kimmel.
The North Carolina, South Dakota, and Alaska class battleships were coming out. The Iowa class were being laid down and Montana were being planned. These were classified as the “fast” battleships that could keep up with the aircraft carriers.
All of the battleships at Pearl Harbor were WWI ventage and were slow. I think all but two or three actually made it back into action.
It all comes down to whether one believes that the IJN code was decrypted before Pearl. I’m skeptical about that, but it is the kind of thing that would remain classified for 100 years.
Ahhh...thanks! I love this type of conversations.
By my eyes, it is not that no IJN Operational Messages, specifically what became known as JN25b7 (as there are many variants such as "five numeral" or "Naval Code D" or ...) yielded intelligence, but rather to what degree this happened it is not "none" as the following shows.
The combining of CI and RI information means that deciphered/decoded/translated messages were used to cross-check/verify what the traffic analysis guys were producing - the bearing cuts, the communication leadings, etc.
Just one ... Attu.
Regarding DugOut Doug, for a very brief overview, I suggest George Victor's text on the Myth of Pearl Harbor.
And Kiska.
All the others, Maryland, West Virgina, Nevada, California, Tennessee and the Pennsylvania(in dry dock) all were raised and returned to service.
One theory that I’m prepared to believe (if further evidence can be provided) is that the US had ‘partially’ cracked JN25, but that one of our allies (likely the Brits) had more fully penetrated it. The Brits were famous for feeding ‘embellished’ or misleading intel to the US as their efforts prior to WW1 showed. If this were correct, then FDR with his antipathy for the British colonialism was probably ignoring all of it or deliberately biding his time.
The thing that sort of points to this is that — according to the officially accepted line — JN25 was not cracked prior to Pearl, but suddenly less than 5 months later we were reading it well enough to plan the ambushes at Coral Sea & Midway less than 6 months after Pearl. Maybe the Brits just came to us after Pearl and gave us JN25 on a platter, or maybe they were suddenly ‘believed’? The evidence out there fits either theory.
I think that the estimates of Japans oil reserves varied wildly depending on the projected usage rate. ie. If they did nothing militarily (beyond what they were doing in China), they had 18 months or so. OTOH, if they got into a major naval war they had only about 6 months.
The US was helping the Dutch to sabotage a lot of their oil fields in Dutch East Indies in the aftermath of Pearl when it was clear that the Japanese were coming and there was no credible defense that could be mounted. It took quite a bit of time for Japan to bring those fields back online.
Correct. Except that the Alaska-class were not battleships, though they resembled them in construction. Neither were they "Battle-Cruisers" as far as the WW1 definition went. Instead they were very large cruisers that were initially intended for independent operations as 'cruiser killers'. Also, the Montana's were designed to be a return to the heavier armored battleship (full-belt & strenghtened deck), most naval sources did not consider them to be "fast battleships". It's doubtful that they would have operated with carriers as the Iowa's did.
The Iowa's were constructed on the "all-or-nothing" principle. Machinery spaces, magazines, turrets & command centers all received the heaviest armor. Essentially a cutaway would show an "armored box" surrounded by a lightly constructed 'raft'. The weight savings contributed to their high speed.
Thanks. Those are excellent suggestions that I was not previously aware of.
Of course FDR knew. That's why the base commanders were ordered to stop their drills and move the carriers away prior to the attack.
That's why he didn't cutoff oil to the Japanese until after Germany invaded the Soviet Union. He finally wanted to get in the war to save the Soviets.
Don't forget that Vice President Wallace ran for President on the communist party ticket in 1952.
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