Posted on 11/21/2009 7:26:17 PM PST by jveritas
Today healthcare vote in the Senate was so badly represented by many on our side and of course by the media and was blown way out of proportion. In reality it is a meaningless vote. The vote today was only to start the debate and it is absolutely does not guarantee at all that the current bill in the Senate with it current version of public option aka socialized medicine is going to pass. In fact as it stands now this current bill is assured to be defeated because the socialists are not going to get 60 votes for cloture to end the debate and hence they cannot move the bill for a final vote. In other words the bill in its current form is dead.
Senator Lieberman has said so many times, very clearly, and very adamantly that he is going to filibuster an end for the debate as long as it has any form of public option and he also said many times that he was going to vote to allow the start of the debate as he did today. That is why Senator Lieberman has been for weeks the most hated person among the left wing lunatics. Many people misunderstood and misinterpreted what he has been saying and thought that Lieberman did not follow through on what he said he was going to do.
Senator Olympia Snowe has said that she is going to filibuster an end to the debate on this current healthcare bill if it contains the current form of public option. She wants a trigger public option which in practical political terms a meaningless thing that will never be triggered. In fact today she even voted against the start of the debate.
Now some will say that if the socialists do not get 60 votes to end the debate and move the bill for a final vote then they are going to use reconciliation or the so called “nuclear option”. This is very unlikely because for the use of reconciliation the bill has to go back to the budget committee or finance committee where it is going to be watered down significantly and just includes the insignificant trigger public option or a trigger co-op. Even very left wing Senators like Tom Harkin said that reconciliation will be a very bad thing to do.
What is the most likely scenario?
Most probably they are going to be able to pass a healthcare bill that contains a trigger public option or a trigger co-op which in all practical form is a meaningless gesture because it is not going to be triggered at all in the future. This is the bill that will go to Obama to sign it into law, the democrat politicians and their media will celebrate but their left wing lunatic base will go insane in a way that will shock many. The left wing lunatic base wants a strong public option (aka socialized medicine) as a minimum and is very much against a trigger public option or a trigger co-op because they know very well that the trigger means absolutely nothing and when this happens the left wing lunatic base is going to explode in total anger against the democrat party.
What is your problem mame? Seriously your attitude is totally un-American. If you do not want to fight socialism then step on the side and let others fight this battle and defeat socialism, or to be more accurate stay on the side where you are now because you are not fighting at all.
Sorry but I totally disagree. I fear all of it—the incremental march on our freedom, a reconcilliation, all of it.
Why do you think reconciliation will improve the bill? Once in place, additional provisions will be added as has been the case with all government programs, they expand, they don’t contract. More regulations, more taxes, etc.
What makes you think it will be nullified in 5 years. What bill has EVER been nullified? Why would you want any type of bill put in place.
As a conservative, I don’t want government taking over the health care segment of the economy, raising my taxes and telling me what doctor I can see, what I can have done, etc.
100% correct. Since when bringing a bill to debate on the Senate floor is now considered an amazing victory? As you said in previous posts the fact the socialists have struggled so hard to get 60 votes to start the debate tells us the impossible task the socialists have to pass the bill in its current form.
Thanks for this thread. I’ve learned a lot.
The Dems LIVE for conservatives/Republicans to become discouraged, defeated, dejected, disheartened, discombobulated, and desperate. I refuse to comply with their wishes or to give them that pleasure.
We’ll see where it goes from here.
So you think Limbaugh, Levin, Beck, the conservative GOP Senators (all the GOP for that matter) and all the conservative pundits overreacted?
I am sorry, but the march of socialism inches forward incrementally, and this was an incremental move forward for the side of central planning. Many thot the the House would not pass a bill, but they did. Many thot Reid would not get the 60 votes, but he did.
I am not confident that we can predict the outcome of this with confidence.
This may sound nutty but to some extent on this - I place my faith in insurance companies. They survived during the Depression when banks failed. They are big, powerful and the are capitalists. A lot of them like Aetna in Joe Liberman’s state are big in health insurance.
If people think they are just going to roll over and die under a public option then you don’t know insurance companies.
I also think the Dems are not gonna screw with doctors. They are making FAR too many enemies with this bill.
Absolutely correct.
“There is still 60 votes required to end the debate and the socialists do not have the 60 votes as long as the bill contain the current version of the public option.”
They are roughly 1-2 votes away from attaining this goal. There is plenty to panic about due to the fact that we are totally beholden to politicians who continually deceive Americans with legislative gimmicks and trickery. They can be bought with gimmicks like “triggers” and “optouts”.
A RINO could bolt or Liebermann...if we hold this off it is likely by one vote, if we hold it off.
When do we panic? After we lose?
It’s too close not to be alarmed. The Dems are much better than GOP at these legislative games.
1 or 2 votes away from Socialism and the beginning of the end for our country...yep, nothing to panic here /sarc off.
The whole thing reminds me of a Scientology youtube vid where the bearded guy who hates the cult (and who doesnt?) tries to interview one of the cult leader chicks on the sidewalk, meanwhile circus/carnival music is playing in the background from his partner. Like some bizarre twilight zone episode. I’m sure Biden in the last hour will pull off the mask and expose his true reptilian form.
It seems those many did not analyze things correctly. Many have never doubted that the bill will pass the House and many have never doubted that the democrats will get 60 votes to START the debate which is a very routine thing to do but yet the socialists struggled to get their 60 votes.
Be alarmed yes but PANIC is way overblown and stupid at this early stage.
“What bill has EVER been nullified? Why would you want any type of bill put in place.”
- This is exactly the point I was conveying to my parents. Medicare, SS, Dept of Education, etc..none of those worthless behemoths of drudgery have been recalled, despite the mountains of evidence that they do far more harm than good.
In the end their goal is to destroy social cohesion, both in and out of the military, break up families, foster extreme government dependence, and eradicate any desire to better oneself.
I value Jveritas opinions very much...yours also seem along his line of thinking...
It’s not early stage.
I know the legislative process. 1 or 2 votes away from ending debate...after that it’s over. There are no other major hurdles. The Conference bill will pass.
It would definitely destroy its comprehensive aspect—which is what’s most objectionable. As it now stands the bill doesn’t take effect till four years from now. But in five years it can be nullified since all reconciliation bills are subject to renewal after five years. Believe me, it will be easier to kill this under reconciliation than it would if the bill passed through normal channels.
Thanks for a very good and informative post and thread, jveritas.
If Lieberman breaks his much stated promise that he’ll vote with Repubs for filibuster after debate if a public option plan remains in the bill he’ll be run out of town on a rail. Joe would have no credibility at all and I’d bet money he’ll keep that promise.
We have to keep contacting senators and making noise and stop this fiasco.
You miss the point. The problem is with the centralizing features of this bill. It regulates the insurance industry by making it impossible for them to profit without curtailing quality and raising premiums. It imposes mandates on businesses and on individuals. The public option is only one small aspect of this. It rations care generally and for seniors in particular.
Yes we need to keep the pressure and made our voices very well heard.
Thanks for the concise analysis. Very easy to understand now. I wasn’t even aware about the 51 votes or how they come about.
Welcome to Free Republic!
You’ve made many well reasoned posts.
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