Posted on 10/14/2009 8:59:28 AM PDT by Jbny
The terms counterterrorism and counterinsurgency have become common currency this decade in the wake of September 11, the invasion of Afghanistan, and the war in Iraq. To a layman’s ear, they can sound like synonyms, especially because of our habit of labeling all insurgents as terrorists. But to military professionals, they are two very different concepts. Counterterrorism refers to operations employing small numbers of Special Operations “door kickers” and high-tech weapons systems such as Predator drones and cruise missiles. Such operations are designed to capture or kill a small number of “high-value targets.” Counterinsurgency, known as COIN in military argot, is much more ambitious. According to official Army doctrine, COIN refers to “those military, paramilitary, political, economic, psychological, and civic actions taken by a government to defeat insurgency.” The combined approach typically requires a substantial commitment of ground troops for an extended period of time... READ THE REST AT COMMENTARYMAGAZINE.COM
(Excerpt) Read more at commentarymagazine.com ...
Smoke and mirrors Baby!
“You then have to develop who you can leave this to, because the only other alternative would be to kill them all.”
Well, if we killed them all, they would be free! Or, we could leave...which we should in my opinion. These people will die first. Our move.
Thank you for the info and ping... It’s really hard to keep up with everything! I can’t remember so many bad things happening all at once..
You win the war by killing what makes them money to fund their operations as well.
Destroy for years their drug crops from the air.
Go after charities and anything else that funds terror.
One of the main reasons we went into Iraq was that they were paying 25k per suicide bombings in Israel with their oil for food money.
THIS article was published on, of all days, September 11, 2009. You can see what the islamists advice to obama is here:
Excerpt: http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/frontpageFeaturedArticle/article_6398.shtml
Afghanistan: When will the war end, and can the U.S. win?
By Ashahed M. Muhammad -Assistant Editor (09-11-2009)
“I don’t believe that the war is slipping through the administration’s fingers. And I think it’s important—first of all, the nation has been at war for eight years. The fact that Americans would be tired of having their sons and daughters at risk and in battle is not surprising,” said Sec. Gates. He also cautioned against determining the success or failure of the military operation based on what may be considered a limited perspective.
“I think what’s important to remember is, the president’s decisions were only made at the—on this strategy were only made at the very end of March. Our new commander (Gen. McChrystal) appeared on the scene in June. We still do not have all of the forces the president has authorized in Afghanistan yet, and we still do not have all the civilian surge that the president has authorized and insisted upon in Afghanistan yet,” said Sec. Gates.
Prof. Starks said in spite of what the generals are saying, the reality is that Pres. Obama is going to be forced to consider a withdrawal “sooner rather than later.”
Leading Islamic scholar Imam Zaid Shakir of the Zaytuna Institute, a non-profit, educational religious institute and school based in Berkeley, California agreed. His advice to Pres. Obama would be “blame it on Bush and get out.”
“It’s an unwinnable war, it has nothing to do with stopping terrorists, in fact, if anything, it is going to create more animosity towards this country and it is going to create more people who have reasons to seek revenge against this country,” said Imam Shakir. Pres. Obama should not be deterred by the possibility of being called weak by the right wing, he added.
“It takes more strength to do the right thing. Sometimes it takes more strength to walk away from a fight you shouldn’t be involved in than to display a false sense of macho and a false sense of courage by engaging in that fight. It takes more courage to defy the warmongers, it takes more courage to defy the militarists, it takes more courage to stand up to admit that you made a mistake,” said Imam Shakir.
The message out of DC has been changing subtly for days now. Here is what I mean:
Excerpt: http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/World_News_3/article_6497.shtml
Afghan War meetings haunted by fears of defeat
By Gareth Porter -InterPress Service- | Last updated: Oct 14, 2009
Then McChrystal’s assessment was leaked to the Washington Post’s Bob Woodward, generating a big headline in the Sep. 21 Washington Post about Gen. McChrystal’s warning of “mission failure.” That leak was obviously aimed at making it more difficult for Mr. Obama to turn down his eventual troop deployment request.
But Gen. McChrystal’s “initial assessment” presents such a formidable array of obstacles to the success of a counterinsurgency war in Afghanistan that it could be seen as an invitation to the president to reject the strategy.
Both leaking such a relatively bleak assessment and requesting 40,000 more troops may have been aimed primarily at ensuring that Gen. McChrystal and his boss, Gen. David Petraeus, cannot be blamed for defeat. Gen. Petraeus and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have closed ranks behind Gen. McChrystal’s strategy and can be expected to endorse his troop request.
********************************************
Now who’s advice is oabama REALLY listening to?
And then there is this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4B91PY20081210
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - U.S.-led coalition forces killed six Afghan policemen and one civilian in a case of mistaken identity while targeting a Taliban commander in southern Afghanistan on Wednesday, the U.S. military and police said.
Scores of Afghan civilians have been killed in air strikes by international troops in Afghanistan this year, Afghan officials say, feeding a perception that NATO-led and U.S. coalition forces do not take enough care when using air strikes.
Though it is rare for foreign troops to hit their allies in the Afghan security forces, the latest incident is the third reported case of friendly fire in as many months, and is likely to strain relationships between the two sides.
“One local national and six Afghan national police were killed in Qalat district in Zabul province, during an operation targeting a known Taliban commander,” said Lieutenant Commander Walter Matthews, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Kabul.
Thirteen others were also wounded, he said
The incident was a case of mistaken identity on both sides, with Afghan police and U.S.-led coalition forces firing on each other, said Matthews.
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Convenienly and effectively HIDDEN in a ONE LINE THROWAWAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ARTICLE:
It was not clear who opened fire first.
IT WAS NOT CLEAR WHO OPENED FIRE FIRST.
“One of the main reasons we went into Iraq was that they were paying 25k per suicide bombings in Israel with their oil for food money.”
That was a righteous war and one worth fighting...I just don’t see the value in this one...
May the unanswered calls of these Marines haunt their dreams until they repent of these egregious sins.
“We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We’ve lost today,”
~~ Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter’s repeated demands for helicopters.
http://www.nato.int/isaf/docu/official_texts/Tactical_Directive_090706.pdf
“...I recognize that the carefully controlled and disciplined employment of force entails risks to our troops...”
“...The Taliban cannot militarily defeat us - but we can defeat ourselves...”
This is all that comes to my mind when I read that:
“We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We’ve lost today,” Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter’s repeated demands for helicopters.
“’We’re pinned down:’ 4 U.S. Marines die in Afghan ambush”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2335142/posts
I’m still in a learning mode, so please forgive me if this is a naive question. Is it me or does it seem like McChrystal is trying to act like a community organizer? He can’t treat middle easterns like Americans! My neighbor served 8yrs in iraq back in the 90’s, and boy does he have some stories. They are nothing like us, I don’t understand what McChrystal’s goal or agenda is...!
Re:not clear who fired first. Fill me in, do you believe that? I’m reading this as either someone is not trained properly or what else?
See my post at #15. It looks like it to me too. Liberals are just idiots enough to try something like that in Afghanistan. They really aren't in touch with reality.
If you get a link for this please send it to me.
Thanks.
It is a fact that the American Troops do NOT trust the Afghan police or the Afghan army. They have turned on Americans many times.
One article had an interview with American Marines who stated that they were positive Afghan troops were giving troop movements and locations of planned strikes to the taliban because the taliban were always ready for them.
I’ll have to locate the original article.
But there are MANY articles about Afghan troops turning on Americans.
FYI:
(AP) An Afghan policeman conducting a joint operation with U.S. soldiers opened fire on the Americans, killing two of them before fleeing, an Afghan official said Saturday, raising fears that militants have infiltrated the ranks of Afghan forces.
The U.S. military earlier said two American troops died in a firefight in Wardak on Friday, but declined to confirm any new details.
Although Afghan forces have periodically turned their guns on international troops, training and working jointly with Afghan police and soldiers on patrols and operations are key to the U.S. strategy of curbing the spreading Taliban-led insurgency.
Shahidullah Shahid, a spokesman for the Wardak provincial governor, said the policeman fired on the Americans while they were patrolling together Friday night, killing two and injuring two. Shahid said two of the officer’s relatives were in custody for questioning.
A third U.S. service member died Friday of wounds from a bomb attack in Wardak the day before.
CBSNews.com Special Report: Afghanistan
Over a period of less than a month last year, Afghan policemen twice attacked American soldiers in the east. In October 2008, a policeman hurled a grenade and opened fire on a U.S. foot patrol, killing one soldier. In September 2008, an officer opened fire at a Paktia police station, killing a soldier and wounding three before he was fatally shot.
Most recently, an American service member and an Afghan police officer argued in Kabul because the American was drinking water in front of police during the Ramadan fast, prompting the police officer to shoot the American. Other American troops responded and seriously wounded the Afghan.
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That article was from Oct. 3, 2009.
I would bet my bottom dollar that the Afghans opened fire first.
Oh my gosh, now it all makes sense. It’s like in vietnam, not knowing enemies vs civilians because they were dressed alike etc.. Oh my gosh..
I had an acquaintance (who was a sniper in the war) tell me that after 9/11, children were used as shields, or basically used to warn the bad guys of our troops approaching. Guess who was forced to take out the spotters...the terrorists are absolutely evil monsters (and I say that with r-rated thoughts)...
Saoirise, did you have a copy of that article? I know you just posted about the overturn of the conviction for Lance Cpl.Holmes of the United States Marine Corps. This incident occured in Iraq, however, it is indicative of the same situation:
“Conviction overturned in Iraqi soldier's death - Lance Cpl. Delano Holmes’”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2362285/posts
LCpl Holmes was on duty at night in Fallujah with an Iraqi guard when the guard refused to put his cigarette out at Holmes continual request (Holmes’ concern was that it would tip off the insurgency and snipers to their physical location). The Iraqi also refused to stop a cell phone conversation.
http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/26924302/rampant-corruption.htm
Video AND transcript. Transcript has some typos. McChrystal is referred to as “crystal.” I corrected some of it.
Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
Shep: “ the bottom of the hour it could be the starkest assessment yet of the rapidly declining situation in Afghanistan. The word that the war effort could be derailed regardless of whether we send ten or twenty or forty even 80000 more troops. The conclusion which really isn’t that surprising if you think about it. *Come (comes) from the top US commander on the ground *general stamina crystal (General McChrystal.) This is according to sources from the Pentagon to the Associated Press. — say that *generally crystal, (General McChrystal) was avoiding the *rampant government that,(ramped up troop) option in Afghanistan *what is now,(With us now,) senior fellow with the nonpartisan center for strategic and international studies Rick Nelson is with us. — specialty is counter terrorism Homeland Security. And defense related issues are good to see you
>thank you.
Shep: But he — up I mean this is a country where 10% of the people read. Where where voting fraud was so rampant across 800 different polling stations legitimacy of the Karzai government is very much in doubt. And now we wonder if it’s possible to nation build over there I’d like who’s surprised by this assessment.”
>” I don’t think a lot of people — and I think that’s one of the reasons why the president is taking time to make this decision to commit to extra troops to Afghanistan. We have to remember that the troops — originally there and even the president has said there — there to eliminate the threat of al-Qaeda. So no matter what we do *and (in) Afghanistan. *—(Whether) we solve the Afghanistan problem or not the fact remains that the terrorists still have a safe haven in Pakistan.
Shep:Yeah and OK it just seems like we keep fighting the wars in the wrong place. They have a safe haven in Pakistan so how do you figure out how to get the Pakistan they’re not even in Afghanistan largely anymore are they.
>Well absolutely not and Afghanistan because of lot of things have changed since September 11. The countries not the same it was even though the assessment is rather stark. We do obviously have a large US and NATO presence there there is some semblance of a government and there is — some stability relative to where it was before.”
Shep:” All right if if is is do you — the assessment that many of the Afghan people again as I mentioned illiterates. Do you do you *—(agree with) the assessment that that they may come to believe that we’re the enemy. And that they would side with those who were wanting to do us harm as our numbers increase — potentially. *Life.” (Loss of life.)
>” He could the issue we need to be concerned about what our numbers increasing Afghanistan is not so much the population. Of Afghanistan but the more so the militant Pakistan military in Pakistan and I *—(ISI) side. Clearly they’re the ones that were going to rely on — need to win this war against terrorism as — no longer called. And those are the individuals that we need to be most *—(reliant on.) Troop increases in Afghanistan US troop increases will definitely serve contrary to that purpose and so so as you look at this thing in the big picture.
Shep: *What we do.(So what do we do?)
>Well that’s a great question obviously and one of the president is weighing very very heavily right now.”
>I think the mistake when we can’t make is to assume that
the only option is to commit additional troops and that we must stabilize Afghanistan and must move forward. That is an open ended commitment. That may as you pointed out — may or may not result in — solution to the problem of terrorism. And global terrorism in Pakistan. Yemen’s small — other places and I think it deserves it adjusted due deliberation.”
Shep: You just and due deliberation is under way Rick Nelson senior fellow for the center for strategic and international studies — great to see thanks for coming. Thank — shut.”
“How We Can Win in Afghanistan”
~~~
ARC-LIGHT the poppy fields,,,!!!
Kill the poppy farmers,,,!!!
ARC-LIGHT the border areas,,,!!!
Blow up every water plant in Iran,,,
Give the basturds something else to think about!!!...
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