[A_Former_Democrat]

Montanans . . . please wake up.

[SandWMan]

Baucus can take his fines and shove them up his...rear end.

[stockpirate]

An independent study realeased today said the bill would ADD $4,000.00 per year to each families bill, not decrease it.

And CBO didn’t score the bill, they made up some numbers based on a memo of the what the bill MAY contain. This is a complete sham.

[libstripper]

All by itself, this rule is enough to destroy the private insurance industry and result in a single payer system. Neat scam if he can pull it off.

[Danae]

What BS, my costs will go UP by 4000 under Bacus’s BS.

[DTogo]

And what happens when IRS/Obamacare agents start knocking on doors to collect fines and/or arrrest people without health insurance?

[dawn53]

What the article says is true...but what it doesn’t mention that if you are in an employer provided plan, and drop your insurance, it’s not you who are getting the $12000 (family plan) in your pocket, it’s your employer. At least with our plan, we pay $300 per month, the employer kicks in 900, so if we dropped our plan we’d save $3600 a year, the employer would be the one with the lion’ share of the savings. Now if the employer would agree to give part of that in salary...now that’d be fine!!!

[Wuli]

It has to be understood that the true intentions of the Dim’s “health care reform” legislation is clearly defined by a result of many features of that legislation, which are:

(1)to raise the cost of existing insurance plans, (2) offer, where ever possible, to shift current and rising costs from employers and employees directly to everyone through taxes, (3) create mandates that result in taxpayer funded inducements to leave private insurance altogether and enter a fully funded government plan, or such a plan pretending to be a “non-profit co-op plan”.

The 100% intentions of the Dim’s plans are to further weaken, obstruct, raise the cost of everything in the private insurance sector and offer subsidized plans that either place legal mandates and controls on private plans (making all plans “private” in name only), or offer direct government subsidized plans themselves.

Everything is intended to produce some federal hook and control into EVERY aspect of private health insurance until it can no longer viably operate as a private business.

Where ever federal control does not exist, to the Dim’s “reform” is missing.

Of course this begins with the national myth that “free markets” (in health insurance) are the problem, when in fact it is government, state and federal that has negatively controlled the shape of the health insurance markets today; not some uncontrolled marketplace.

Remove the state mandates that require employers to over-insure all employees with one-size-fits all plans all employees are enrolled in,

remove the state restrictions that prohibit small employers and individuals from buying insurance “out-of-state”,

remove the state restrictions that prevent groups of small employers from joining together for bargaining as a single group for a joint-group insurance policy for all their employees (to make groups as large as the giant employers),

make whatever tax exemptions that exist for “health insurance”, state and federal, apply to any plan, no matter who is paying for it, as long as it is a nationwide, private plan that an individual can keep with them, from employer to employer, for as long as they want to -

and “universal”, nationwide, individual health insurance would in a short time become much more affordable and those private nationwide plans would be cheaper to subsidize for the very poorest.

The Dim’s plans are designed to prevent such a possibility.

[rawhide]

I thought about this very thing this person writes about. The only problem is you may not have the time to buy insurance, for instance you may have an accident or a sudden illness that requires emergency care. If you plan to wait until you can buy insurance to get coverage, well, that heart attack may not wait, nor that falling off a ladder and having a compound fracture? Insurance costs but it is worth it when it s needed.

[crusty old prospector]

So, I guess there is a free lunch?

[Anti-Bubba182]

"..The fine will eventually reach "$750 per adult in the household. This per adult penalty would also be phased in: For 2013, $0; $200 for 2014; $400 for 2015; $600 in 2016 and $750 in 2017.".."

Anybody else notice how the fines don't start until after Obama has run for a second term? They are assuming they can slip the bill past without anyone paying attention.

[paulycy]

Can a helpful FReeper tell me what the specifics are re: the name and number of the Baucus bill and the telephone number for people to call tomorrow and protest?

I want to send it out to my family. Thanks.

[darkangel82]

Hey Baucus, FU you commie.

[Williams]

Don’t know why Americans have faith in a bunch of politicians - of any party - to intelligently draft thousands of pages affecting major parts of our lives and the economy.

Politicians for the most part are pompous idiots.

[Williams]

Just think how the economy on its own now provides almost everyone with health insurance, and everyone with health care.

Then they write a complicated bill that requires $899 billion and tons of taxes, penalties and Medicare cuts to maybe make it work.

What does that tell you about whether it makes any sense?

[Eric Blair 2084]

"There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can spend somebody else’s money on myself. And if I spend somebody else’s money on myself, then I’m sure going to have a good lunch! Finally, I can spend somebody else’s money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else’s money on somebody else, I’m not concerned about how much it is, and I’m not concerned about what I get. And that’s government. And that’s close to 40% of our national income."

---Milton Friedman, "Free To Choose"

How to Cure Health Care; By Milton Friedman

Readers Digest Version for liberal bloggers and White House and Congressional radical Socialists who claim Conservatives and Libertarians don't have a plan. We have one, you just don't like the idea that you wouldn't control it.

1. Repeal the tax exemption for employer provided medical care.
2. Terminate Medicare and Medicaid
3. Provide every American citizen with catastrophic insurance. Major medical with a high deductible.
4. Increase the use of tax free Medical Savings Accounts.
5. Deregulate insurance so that consumers can shop for a la carte coverage across State lines.

[Stultis]

Yeah. I've never understood, btw, the many Republicans (e.g. Newt) who -- while adamantly rejecting the balance of Obama Care -- say they are in favor of eliminating preexisting conditions.

I mean, gee, if I can always waltz in later and get fully covered, preexisting conditions notwithstanding, why in the world would I pay for insurance UNLESS AND UNTIL I get sick?!?

I know Newt is genuinely expert on health care issues, and he's no idiot, so I assume there MUST be some provisos on his part that I am not aware of, but it's like he, and others with this position, don't even grasp the concept of "insurance!"

[guitarist]

People need to vote more carefully. This ridiculous bill could never see the light of day if there were 5 or 10 fewer radical Dem’s in the Senate. Do you all like Barbara Boxer and Al Franken deciding how our govt should be run?

[concerned about politics]

but the financial rewards are huge for people if they drop their insurance.

And the politicians will be rewarded handsomely as well. The fines for not having insurance will be sent to THEM.

This has nothing to do with health care. The grasshoppers have outnumbered the ants, and the left needs money FAST, from somewhere, from someone. The democrat base is once again demanding to be fed. Health care is a left wing politicians gold mine.

This is not about you. This is not about me. This is not about the average American. This is about power and privilege for the politicians. Everything they do is for THEIR own good. They need that health care money to throw at their base, and they'll find a way to steal it one way or another.

Notice how none of this affects the left wing welfare base in any way. It only hurts the tax paying right wing slaves.

[TexasFreeper2009]

I said people would drop their insurance and that insurance costs would skyrocket the second I heard this nonsense about forcing insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions.

Everyone who is deathly ill with no health insurance will rush to get insurance... costing the insurance companies money which they will pass along to everyone else in the form of higher premiums.

Then you got another group of people that only get insurance in case something horrible happens... but now that they know they can get insurance after the fact, they will gladly drop their current plans and pockets the savings knowing that if any thing bad unexpected bad happens they can rush and and get it then!

This is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! This is simple stuff to figure this out, why are they pushing a plan that will raise cost and raise the number of uninsured?