To The States: Should We Talk About Secession?

Market-Ticker ^ | 11 October 2009 | Karl Denninger

[Atlas Sneezed]

Perhaps economics might be the seccession trigger.

Imagine seceding from the burden of Obama-debt, and the default and bankruptcy.

Reform a union of solvent states.

[Terry Mross]

It would have to be done through the state legislatures. You know, that group of elected people who were charged with approving the senators before we allowed them to screw that up? Anyway, we would have to elect enough people with enough guts to stand up and vote to seceed. And if the governor doesn’t want to do it they need to overide him.

[353FMG]

You will have to stand in line to get an entry visa to enter that state legally. I can bet that the state who decides to secede from the Union will not have an “open door” policy as the US currently has.

(Pssst, send money and I’ll get you a Texas Passport cheap)

[RipSawyer]

“These United States” ceased to exist
after Dec. 20, 1860 when South Carolina succeeded.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Unfortunately South Carolina did not succeed. We tried to secede but our secession was ultimately unsuccessful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlDkgk3SMPg

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

Not secession, but constitutional convention. The State of Texas is ideal for this purpose, and should act as host to the convention, sending out invitations to all the State legislatures inviting them to attend. The convention will be seated on agreement of 2/3rds of the individual States, with or without the approval of the federal government of the United States.

The rules would have to be set ahead of time, the State land in Texas would have to be set aside for that purpose, and set up like a military base to insure that delegates were not interfered with, the process tampered with, and that domestic or foreign interests—especially the federal government of the United States, be excluded from the proceedings.

The Texas Department of Public Safety and the Texas Rangers would be in charge of security outside the perimeter of the convention, as well as the Texas National Guard, who would be relieved if the US president tried to assume control over their actions. All personnel will be sworn to protect and defend the constitutional convention in personal oath.

The ground rules would be established ahead of time, to include, but not be limited to the following.

1) By simple majority vote, any officer or employee of the United States, elected, appointed, enlisted, hired, or otherwise retained, who attempts to interfere with the process or delegates of the convention, may be relieved of duty or dismissed without appeal, and will be prohibited from future federal employment until the convention has concluded.

2) Each individual State shall send a delegation of 10 adult persons of good character, two of which shall be convention delegates and the remainder being alternates in case the delegates cannot perform their duties. These 10 adult persons shall be selected by each State’s legislature by majority vote.

3) The President of the United States, the congress of the United States, and the Judiciary of the United States, are enjoined from involvement in the convention, in both a professional and personal capacity. Nor can they use the resources of their office to afford involvement with the process. The regulatory, intelligence and investigative agencies and resources available to the federal government are also enjoined from any scrutiny or involvement in the convention.

4) Once seated with delegations from at least 2/3rds of the individual States, the convention will select a chairman, and set forth the rules of its proceedings, which may be approved by a simple majority vote of delegates in attendance. The rules will be augmented by a listing of additions, deletions and modifications to existing United States constitution as proposed by each delegation.

5) A video record of the proceedings will be made, and retained for release at the conclusion of the convention. Prior to the conclusion of the formative part of the convention, with the creation of the first draft of a new constitution, delegates will be provided a secure and encrypted means of communicating with a select committee of their respective State legislature and governor, to present to them a copy of the draft constitution, so that they may be instructed as to its acceptability by that State.

6) If 3/4ths of the individual State’s legislatures do not approve of the draft, then the convention will continue to debate its particulars. When there is agreement by 3/4ths of the States, the draft will again be returned to each individual State to be approved or rejected. Once 3/4ths of the individual States have authorized their delegates to vote in favor of the new constitution, a vote shall be taken by delegates, and if successful, that draft will become the new constitution of the United States.

7) From that point, in consultation with their individual States, the delegates will issue instructions in conformity with the new constitution, requesting and requiring whatever changes in the federal government of the United States as are deemed appropriate. These may conclude any and all treaties, debts, contracts and agreements made with the US government.

8) All officers or employees of the United States, elected, appointed, enlisted, hired, or otherwise retained, may be dismissed without appeal or provision, to include the president, congress, the judiciary, the bureaucracy, and the armed forces.

9) Any and all laws, statutes and precedents set forth by the federal government of the United States may be suspended and voided. Those incarcerated by the federal government may likewise have their sentences suspended in conformity with the new constitution.

10) Only once these changes have been accomplished will the constitutional convention be concluded. No act of retribution against convention delegates or alternates will be lawful.

[OrangeHoof]

Any state that wants to survive is going to have to do it.

I believe this too. I'm willing to pay off the U.S. government for their military bases, their air traffic control system, their border inspectors (ha!) and other investments they have made in my state. Slaves sometimes have to pay for their freedom.

But it will be all that future debt that we won't have to pay that will make it a good deal. Plus, as the U.S. becomes more socialist/Marxist/communist, the seceding state will have strong growth as a last bastion of capitalism, attracting the finest doctors, the best investors, etc.

We'll just make sure to ban the ACLU.

[Ronin]

If things are rotten where you live, why not consider moving to a state that is more conservative?

I live in Japan now, but am seriously considering where I will move to when I return, and one thing is sure — it will not be to any so-called “blue” state.

I would rather flip burgers in Texas initially, confident that my intelligence and conservative work ethic would eventually raise my living condition, then take a high paying job in California or any other liberal bastion.

I really believe partition is coming. The hardcore conservative and whacko liberal sides of the population hate each other just as badly as the Hindu and Muslim extremists hated each other when India broke apart.

All conservatives, everywhere in the nation, need to start thinking about where they want to be when it happens.

[EricT.]

I’ve long wondered if we could convince the Canadians to take MA, VT, and the entire west coast in exchange for Alberta.

[Intolerant in NJ]

“It was an effort to keep prices from falling too fast. That’s a policy.”...it was a policy, and a typically short-sighted liberal one for sure - home prices down almost fifty percent in some places in less than a year - if only we could get Barney and his ilk to stop living in fantasyland......

[SaraJohnson]

Socialists would not stay in the free state. And free people would not stay in the socialist state. If socialists did stay in the free country, they would have to live with the structure of non-socialist National government.

I think we should explore this idea. We are so far apart and really, we don’t like living together and that has been the case, hot and heavy, since the 70’s. We are not able to have a free country and a socialist compromise as we have seen with the break down of our consitution and law, our society, economy and the corruption of our government.

We have too much population and socialists have the incentive to keep adding to it so they can get more votes and they are setting up the nation for total failure. It really is time to split up before the hatred destroys the territory for good.

[donna]

All I know is those elites, Republican or Democrat, doing business in New York City and DC sure don’t care about my living conditions here in Phoenix. We really cannot survive their foolishness.

[depressed in 06]

If the House does not flip in 10, YES! Let the freeloaders pay for their own government.

[sasportas]

My father fought communists from Pusan to the Yalu River in Korea, I fought them in the cold war. I know many who have fought them in Vietnam. And now, incredible though it is, we are witnessing before our eyes a commie takeover of very own country!

I do not want to see it come to this, but if revolution must come so be it, live, die, sink, or swim, anything is better than to live in a communist state.

[Nam Vet]

I move to the first state to secede !

Nam Vet

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you Mel.

[DoughtyOne]

In going to agree with that, but will admit to not being as informed on the subject is I should be.

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the suggestion. I’m still not convinced declaring sovereignty and separating from the union is the best idea.

If I’m putting words in your mouth, I’m sorry. I do not want to see our best states withdraw leaving them in an isolated position.

When all is said and done, our most sound entities need to control our military and our full population. Otherwise we’ll be vulnerable to outside forces

[maine-iac7]

. I’m still not convinced declaring sovereignty and separating from the union

But for the states to dot the i's and cross the t's on our STATES RIGHTS, separating those from Federal rights, the latter of which is very narrow.

When the federal gov't can even mandate what light bulb you SHALL use in your home, and the Sheeple trot right along behind such edicts, we are in deep trouble. I believe stuff like the mandated light bulb was a test run to see what percentage of the dumb a*s people would meekly and unquestioning - fall in line.

They found out. The populace - conditioned in gov't ('public') schools in the past 30+ years, look to DC as it's Bellwether Sheep - and following behind like lambs to the slaughter.

We need to, along with everything else, educate our children - get the DVD's or watch on line through hulu.com and others, the documentaries done on "General Washington", "John Adams," "Lewis and Clark, " etc.s and assign your kids to watch them pursuant to a discussion/quiz. We need to insure that our present and next generations know about the Constitution, how it came about, and that it guarantees - if we fight for it - power from the people up, not the other way around.

We won't get to keep our freedoms if we don't care enough to fight for them.

Would we leave our cars in the city with doors unlocked and keys in the ignition? We need to constantly be vigilant against thieves.

[DoughtyOne]

I agree. You’re right on track IMO.

What I have zeroed in on, is closing down schools for one year. During that time develop new study materials. Find new teachers that don’t have a socialist agenda to grind, and then reopening under a new mandate in a non-union environment.

Privatized schools would be the goal, and a new corporation could be brought in if the teachers decide to go union.

Then the school would start up where it left off, sans the old teachers.

We need to start playing hardball.

[ForGod'sSake]

Great article and good discussion here!

Karl Denninger has entered the room!

Click the 10th Amendment button for articles tagged "10thamendment". A "statesrights" link is atop the forum page.

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