Posted on 09/28/2009 8:12:21 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Sept 27, 2009 — What would Darwin do? Just in time for the 150th anniversary of The Origin of Species, his magnum opus has been reprinted with an introduction not by a scientist or historian, but by a Christian evangelist. He and a Christian movie actor are trying to get their special edition to students at major universities. Talk about brashness. Darwin’s defenders are stepping on themselves to condemn this – well, blasphemy...
(Excerpt) Read more at creationsafaris.com ...
Can you name one scientific invention/discovery that evolution has inspired? Just because we don’t believe in evolution doesn’t mean we don’t believe in REAL science. Real science is observable, testable, repeatable.
Has the evolution of one species into another ever been observed? No. Do the beliefs of evolution line up with what we see in the natural world? No. Can it be repeated? No. Can it be tested? If it can’t be observed, it can’t be tested so no. Evolution fails the scientific test. It is a belief system and nothing more. While creation can’t be proven scientifically, the facts do line up with what we see in the natural world. God created each animal to reproduce after its own kind. That is what we witness. So the next time you accuse us of being unscientific, you may want to think about this. We all have the same facts, our worldview causes us to interpret the facts differently.
Have you ever said the word sunrise? I guess you don’t believe that the earth moves either then. The earth is immovable from it’s orbit.
When He changed/manipulated time, that fact was recorded in the scripture. There is no such record in Genesis. I think it is mental gymnastics to try to attribute long ages to the plain reading of “and evening and morning were the FIRST day. Every other time that the word yom is used with a number it means a normal day. Why would Genesis be an exception to this?
You strike me as a perfect candidate for the HMS Creation ping list. If you would like to assist us in getting the word out, feel free to drop me a PM :o)
All the best—GGG
“All that Genesis is telling us is that creation occurred over a series of six light and dark cycles. It does not state the duration of these cycles”
Exodus 20
8”Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God.
11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
It seems clear here, we work six days because God worked six days. We keep the Sabbath holy because God rested on the seventh day. How can these two references to six days and the seventh day, mean two different things? You believe that God wants us to work for six days because He created the earth and all that was in them in six unspecified periods of light and dark cycles? And God wants us to rest on the seventh day because He rested for the seventh unspecified period of light and darkness?
I think the Bible very clearly specifies the duration of these light and dark cycles. They are 6 days with a 7th day for rest. Yes yom can mean several different things, but when used with a number it only means a normal day. Every other time yom is used with a number it means a normal day. Why would these passages be an exception?
I don't think it is quite so clear. That there have been so many differing opinions throughout history as to the true meaning of a day or a yom in the context of creation is a testimony to the lack of clarity.
This is not a young earth versus old earth argument. There have been a number of Church Fathers who proffered that creation was instantaneous and that the six days formed nothing more than a logical framework.
Ancient Hebrew lacked a word for a unit of measure for time durations shorter than the period from dawn to dusk. Even if they the knowledge of a more precise description the time period they lacked the ability to express it.
Take the analog of a piece of string. Had there been a verse that referred to six pieces of string with no other information you would not be able to tell anyone with any certainty what the length of any of the pieces of string was and would be unable to tell anyone if they were all of equal length.
You’re catching on...
Thus spake Zarathustra. (with jiggity sauce)
With all that fixing, is must have been broken..
Why is Genesis the ONLY place in the Old Testament that uses the word yom with a number that does not mean an ordinary day?
” Even if they the knowledge of a more precise description the time period they lacked the ability to express it”
You think the ancient Hebrews lacked a word or an ability to express the word? You think they were less intelligent than you and I? Your worldview is showing.
“I don’t think it is quite so clear. That there have been so many differing opinions throughout history as to the true meaning of a day or a yom in the context of creation is a testimony to the lack of clarity.”
You ignored the scriptures in Exodus 20. six days shall a man work because God created in six days.
Because the number is identifying a specific day within the sequence of the days of creation.
The celestial activities were the only tools the ancient Hebrews had to measure time. They had no need for a word for an hour or a minute so they had none. If you can produce a Hebrew word for a precise unit of time less than a day that is not defined by the duration of the light and dark cycle and cite an instance of its use I will concede the point to you. This is not an indication of a lack of intelligence or a negative reflection on the culture or the Hebrew people, it is a reflection of the technology available at the time. Even the most advanced technological cultures like the Egyptians had only primitive shadow clocks which were obviously useless at night.
I ignored nothing. You are hypothesizing that a yom in the context of creation has a specific measurable duration equal to a 24 hour day. I am asserting that a yom in the context of creation is a period of undefined duration bounded by a sequential light and dark cycle. This is what Scripture says and I am not so insecure in my faith that I feel compelled to augment Scripture with definitions and meaning that are clearly not present.
So you are saying that in Exodus 20 the phrase “six days you shall work” means six normal days but that in the same scripture the phrase “ for in six days the Lord created” means six undetermined periods of time?
“This is what Scripture says and I am not so insecure in my faith that I feel compelled to augment Scripture with definitions and meaning that are clearly not present.”
It is clearly present in Genesis with the use of numbered days and the evening and morning reference. It is also abundantly clear in Exodus 20. The phrase six days doesn’t mean two different things in that passage. It doesn’t need to be augmented, it is there. To say it isn’t there is intellectual dishonesty.
You are clearly hung up on the definition and duration of a yom (day). Scripture does not feel the need to define the duration of a yom, why do you? Let me put this more clearly.
Creation = 6X
Solve for X
I'll give you two.
1) Animal testing for new human drugs. If animals had nothing in common with humans, this testing wouldn't work.
2) Disease modeling in animals. Same comment as #1.
Has the evolution of one species into another ever been observed?
Then you must be able to explain the fossil record. Do you believe that fossils are simply stones that fell from the moon?
Do the beliefs of evolution line up with what we see in the natural world?
Actually they do. It was observation of the natural world that led Christians to devise the theory of evolution.
Can it be tested?
Sure it can. Find a 50 million-year-old human fossil. Find a 500 million-year-old mammal fossil. Evolution would have serious problems if this occured.
While creation can’t be proven scientifically, the facts do line up with what we see in the natural world.
Since creationists remain unwilling or unable to document what they think the facts are in any scientific way, this remains an open question. Creationists have yet to tackle the questions Darwin put to them 150 years ago. Good luck with that.
We all have the same facts, our worldview causes us to interpret the facts differently.
No we don't. We don't even have the same Bible.
I am not hung up on anything. The Bible doesnt specifically define ALOT of words with more than one meaning but they can be understood by the meanings of the word when taken in context. The word lord has more than one meaning. When Sarah called Abraham “lord”, the Bible doesn’t define which meaning of the word she was using but we can read it in context. He was her husband and that is one of the meanings of the word lord. So she wasn’t referring to him as god but as husband.
Similarly yom can mean the daytime, a day (24 hour period), or a period of time etc. It has to mean one of those things so taken in context does it mean a day or a period of time? The context is this, whenever the word yom is used with a number ANYWHERE else in the OT, it means a regular day.
example: Exodus 16:5
On the sixth day they are to prepare...
If it is not used with a number then we must read it in context. I 2 Kings 20:1 In those days Hezekiah became ill... In that time period Hezekiah became ill.
So if the language isn’t consistent in Exodus 20, how can we hope to understand anything in scripture at all. Again, does it mean we are to work for six unspecified periods of time because God created in six unspecified periods of time? Does it mean we are to work for six normal days because God created in six unspecified periods of time? OR does it mean that we are to work for six normal days because God created in six normal days? We have a seven day week with one day as the Sabbath (ie six days to accomplish our work). Unless you can CHANGE the meaning of the EXACT same phrase(in six days) in the same chapter (EXODUS 20) then logically it mean that they are normal six days. Again, it takes alot of extrapolating to get unspecified periods of light and dark cycles out of this scripture.
Then you need some consistency in your position. You cannot argue for a strict literal interpretation of Scripture except when you argue for interpretation by allegory.
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