Posted on 09/16/2009 8:51:02 AM PDT by AreaMan
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ping?
Many teachers have English as a second language.
MOST teachers do not have the expertise to teach. For example, Math, Science or when it is an ESL teacher - forget reading and grammar etc.. Also the expectation of the TEACHER will be reflected in the student. A HIGH standard will push them. A LOW standard, which they have does what you expect to do.
I psecifically point to NYC and Chicago and other hell holes when I state that MOST of these teachers are NOT educated here but get a pass and have English as their second language. Good teachers typically don’t want to work in hell holes with unmotiated teachers. Even giving them cars or perks does NOT keep the “better” teachers there.
There is a serious logical disconnect here. There may be little correlation at all between the reading levels of public school students and the quality of their teachers. Even the best teachers cannot be expected to educate children whose subnormal family and cultural roots are completely at odds with the notion of self-improvement.
Parochial, KIPP, Green Dot and other schools seem to be able to do it and many of them in the worst neighborhoods in the country.
I believe many good teachers are undermined by their own Union and the local/district administration.
bump
I think you are making a good point. Unfortunately, political correctness prevents us from being able to openly and honestly discuss topics such as the family backgrounds of the kids. We’re not supposed to talk about whether certain backgrounds or family situations make education more difficult. We’re not supposed to talk about things such as some parents not being partners in making sure their kids do homework, or whether the parents are involved with their kids schools in any way.
Since we can’t discuss certain issues, we’re left to debate topics such as the quality of the teachers, or the physical condition of some schools. And then we blame the kids not learning on old run down school buildings, or lack or air conditioning, or the lack of the best teachers in troubled schools.
In most (if not all) of the cases you've cited, enrollment in those schools requires a level of interest and a diligent attention to education on the part of the PARENTS and not just the teachers.
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This has been an issue in Buffalo for years, decades even.
And every time the test is administered and the results show that many high school teachers cannot even pass a basic high school proficiency test, the first thing you hear is cries of *racism*. What’s more, is that nobody who administered or reported on the test, ever mentioned the race of the teachers who took the tests.
That was the knee jerk reaction from whoever was representing the teachers.
That said volumes about who passed and did not pass the test.
Have the home habits and school habits of academically successful children been studied? How much learn really takes place in the institutional classroom, and how much learning is happens due to the parent and child's efforts in the home? Do we really know?
I could be that **little** learning is occurring in the classroom and the nearly all of the learning happens in the home. Maybe the only thing a government school does is send home a curriculum for the parents and child to follow. Maybe nearly all of the success is due to the “afterschooling” done by the child and the parents!
As I ask parents of academically successful children to describe their home lives, I find **no** difference between what these instiutituionized children are doing in the home and what my homeschooled children did.
If the parents and the child are doing nearly all the work at home, then why on earth would we ever expect the typical model of government education to help children from dysfunctional homes. It is insanity to believe the typical government school would be of any help whatsoever!
It very well may be that:
1) The academically successful child would do better to spend **less** time in the institutional setting and more time at home where most of the learning is happening. Government schooling may actually be **retarding** the academic progress of the academically successful child.
2) The child that does not have family support might do better in highly structured institutional schools that attempt to compensate for the lack of parental guidance. KIPP schools are an example. George Will calls them “paternalistic” schools.
All government teachers should be required to take the GED for high school drop outs. Give them a month's notice. If they can't pass that exam with an 80% or better, they should be fired. If they can not add, subtract, multiply, divide fractions and convert them to decimals and percentages they should be fired immediately!
Every Tuesday evening my husband and I tutor Spanish speaking children. Last week one of the tutors ( a government teacher) announced to all the kids in the room that she didn't know arithmetic beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. I was appalled! Can you imagine anyone announcing that she couldn't read?
Please read post #12.
So?...When parental involvement is lacking then modify the system of delivery of education to address this lack! Duh!
Children from dysfunctional homes would likely do better in a highly structured school like KIPP. George Will calls these school paternalistic schools.
Why on earth to we continue to apply a model that depends on parent tutoring and supervision to children who do not have parents that can ( or will not) apply tutoring and supervision. This is a complete and utter exercise in INSANITY!
Also...What about the kids who do have parents that supervise and tutor with their homework?
Maybe, nearly everything a children learns in a functional home is **entirely** due to his parent's and his own “afterschooling”. Maybe the current model of government schooling is wasting this child's time, is merely sending home a curriculum for the parents and child to follow, and has little or NO effect on what this child is learning. Maybe, the institutional school is actually **retarding** this child's progress, and the child would do better if he spent less time in the institution and more time at home doing what he does best: Afterschooling!
It certainly can’t be helpful for a teacher to be incompetent or ignorant. Seeing as we are paying their salaries I think we should get to see that sort of info.
To benefit children in public school classrooms, teachers should:
* Undergo comprehensive formal testing annually.
* Face immediate suspension of license and removal from the classroom for any teacher who doesn’t take the test or who fails the test.
* Undergo remediation at the teacher’s expense.
Since public schools don’t operate for the benefit of children, this has not one single chance of ever happening.
You are correct, Alberta.
Our basic assumption that all children can learn, if only they have a “good” teacher, fails to consider that not all children come to school ready (or able) to learn.
Should we have “ability grouping” in our classrooms? Should we educate the lower ability children differently, with different diplomas? Should we have different kinds of schools for those of lesser academic talent?
And, finally where should we place our very best teachers? In the classrooms of the less talented, figuring that the more talented can do with the less talented teachers?
And what do we do about the underperforming parents?
Instead, we have the system we have, and everyone expects that all children are, or should be above average, and should be able to master higher math and science, reading at a 12th grade level.
When teachers fail to produce the desired results, we blame them. We theorize that if we could get the “superior” teachers to teach in classrooms full of uncivilized threats to their physical well-being, all would be well in our urban schools.
Who was it that said that insanity is doing the same thing over again, and expecting different results?
The comprehensive formal testing should only be for those who score under a certain percentage.
Any teacher who gets above a 90%, for example, shouldn’t need it done annually. Maybe every five years.
For teachers who get below about 80% at least, SHOULD get it done annually.
I think it would be reasonable to allow teachers who demonstrate proficiency to not have to do it so frequently.
You can turn schools around with two simple measures, to make them more like private schools:
(1) Have the principal be dismissible for failure to achieve.A principal who fires teachers for any reason other than competency would be slitting his own throat, and so would have every incentive to be as objective as possible.(2) Give the principal the power to fire teachers for failure to achieve.
You're right, of course. My concern is that some people are really not suited to teaching, but it may take more than a single year to discover it.
How about: Every year for the first X (3? 5?) years, then every 5 years after that?
Still, it is distinctly possible that teachers would manage to pass tests and still perform poorly in the classroom.
If testing became mandatory, teacher's unions would jump on the bandwagon with classes and seminars meant to help their members pass.
Because that would happen, it then makes sense to consider including student testing trends in the evaluation equation.
On the one hand, if scores drop consistently, it probably indicates a problem. On the other hand, I'm not sure how you'd factor in teachers who teach students with various issues that make learning difficult. The changing mix of students with special needs could make year-to-year test trends almost meaningless.
If special ed teachers were given a pass, more teachers would then strive to get their students labeled to avoid the tests.
This has already happened, but for different reasons.
When it was percieved in the last decade or so that there was a benefit in labeling students ADD/ADHD, those numbers exploded in schools across the country.
It's a shame that all this has to be considered, but we know that bad teachers will go to great lengths, with the full support of their unions and often their schools to remain in the classroom.
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