Posted on 09/13/2009 8:13:29 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
What is meant by laws of nature? Presumably it is the business of science to uncover them. Yet few people, and few scientists, ever unpack the term. Many would be surprised to know that there are deep controversies among philosophers about the meaning of "laws of nature." Creationists have the high ground in this arena...
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
Ping!
I think the people at the ICR might be closeted gays. I never see a picture of a hot babe in those articles you link to, only male models.
That which atheists fear most—their own foolishness—obstructs them from examination of questions such as:
Why did laws of physics appear, in a discrete moment in time, from nothingness?
Why (and how), in the beginning, were particular physical constants set at specific and extremely improbable values allowing life to exist?
As I said, fear that they will discover their own ignorance prevents atheists from considering these and similar questions.
Thank you for posting this article.
This is something that I believe has not been discussed much.
What do the terms ‘nature’, and ‘laws of nature’ exactly mean?
Back to reading the article to find out what ICR poses as the answers.
“That which atheists fear most—their own foolishness—obstructs them from examination of questions such as:
Why did laws of physics appear, in a discrete moment in time, from nothingness?
Why (and how), in the beginning, were particular physical constants set at specific and extremely improbable values allowing life to exist?
As I said, fear that they will discover their own ignorance prevents atheists from considering these and similar questions.”
—What on Earth gave you the impression that atheists don’t contemplate such questions?? I’ll never cease to be amazed at what many people think atheists do and don’t think about.
Well, I read the article, but I don’t think they gave any kind of conclusive answer.
Or ideas such as:
Evolution is only possible with HETEROSEXUAL relationships.
But, because the Judaic book of Genesis says that babies can only be made with heterosexual relationships, they have a cow...
It appears to me that atheists fall into two groups, corresponding with two separate motives.
Atheists in the first group have failed to consider rational arguments.
Those in the second group might have considered the rational arguments but refuse to submit to God anyway.
I was referring to atheists in the former group.
“Evolution is only possible with HETEROSEXUAL relationships. “
—That’s all I ever see you post - I’m not sure if it’s meant to be serious or if it’s some running gag joke.
If you are being serious, I’m assuming you are referring to sexually reproducing species like humans (most lifeforms actually don’t reproduce sexually).
Thus, it sounds like all you are saying is that lifeforms like humans reproduce sexually. Actually, atheists do realize that.
That some members of a population breed and some don’t (or that some breed more than others) is a big part of evolution (thus the term: “Natural Selection”). Thus, by not breeding one is still taking part in the process. Evolution doesn’t halt because some members of a population don’t breed.
But anyway, I’m not sure why anyone would care if homosexuals were contributing to evolution or not.
Are you worried that they are hurting evolution’s feelings?
One can not deny religion's utility to society and it is for that reason, if no other reason, that it's institutions come under the protection of Conservatism. The particular dogmas matter little to the Conservative.
This can be highlighted in Franklin's admonishment to Paine on the advent of Paine's publishing the Age of Reason.
TO THOMAS PAINE.
[Date uncertain.]
DEAR SIR,
I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For without the belief of a Providence, that takes cognizance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion, that, though your reasonings are subtle and may prevail with some readers, you will not succeed so as to change the general sentiments of mankind on that subject, and the consequence of printing this piece will be, a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits against the wind, spits in his own face.
But, were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? You yourself may find it easy to live a virtuous life, without the assistance afforded by religion; you having a clear perception of the advantages of virtue, and the disadvantages of vice, and possessing a strength of resolution sufficient to enable you to resist common temptations. But think how great a portion of mankind consists of weak and ignorant men and women, and of inexperienced, inconsiderate youth of both sexes, who have need of the motives of religion to restrain them from vice, to support their virtue, and retain them in the practice of it till it becomes habitual, which is the great point for its security. And perhaps you are indebted to her originally, that is, to your religious education, for the habits of virtue upon which you now justly value yourself. You might easily display your excellent talents of reasoning upon a less hazardous subject, and thereby obtain a rank with our most distinguished authors. For among us it is not necessary, as among the Hottentots, that a youth, to be raised into the company of men, should prove his manhood by beating his mother.
I would advise you, therefore, not to attempt unchaining the tiger, but to burn this piece before it is seen by any other person; whereby you will save yourself a great deal of mortification by the enemies it may raise against you, and perhaps a good deal of regret and repentance. If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it. I intend this letter itself as a proof of my friendship, and therefore add no professions to it; but subscribe simply yours,
B. Franklin
I try as much as possible to follow Franklin's advice.
Riiiiiiight...after reading post #4...we can really see what you mean!
(Do I really need a sarcasm tag)?
Thanks for the ping!
“Riiiiiiight...after reading post #4...we can really see what you mean!
(Do I really need a sarcasm tag)?”
—Huh? What has post #4 got to do with whether atheists contemplate the origins of the universe?
I have no idea if you were being sarcastic or not... but either way, I still would have no idea what you are talking about (which seems to be a common problem), so I don’t think tags would have mattered.
And because there is logic and order we can study “nature” and discover these “laws”, something not possible in an arbitrary universe.
As usual, first posts past the ping and already evos are shredding creationists for their beliefs, that they are somehow inferior to scientific belief.
Faith is faith, no matter what the object of the faith. Everybody puts their confidence and trust in something.
Somehow, atheists have decided that putting trust in God is an unworthy endeavor, fit only for scorn and contempt, whereas, faith in science is respectable.
The only justification for that is that they believe it and so think it’s right, when the reality is, the faith they’re exercising is no different in nature than that of the religious person, it’s merely the object of the faith that is different.
Your screen name is so apt.....
On a larger scale, the ratio of the orbits of the planets are related to the musical scale. Plato mentions the music of the cosmos. If one assumes the ancients could not see Mercury, then the notes of the musical scale that are reflected in the orbits of the primary planets are, Venus-Earth-Mars-Jupiter-Saturn are La-Do-So-Re-So, or A-C-G-D-G.
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