Posted on 08/27/2009 10:22:18 PM PDT by STARWISE
IMHO, Church/synogog leadership was coopted by the left. The people who used seminary to avoid serving in Vietnam are now the senior leadership among Christians and Jews.
The Vatican, I think, can come down only so hard on the US Church or it believes it will lose much of its declining membership. The same is true of all faiths, really.
Indeed. President George W. and Kennedy collaborated on the education bill early in his presidency and actually praised Kennedy. Kennedy then turned on the President for most of the other positions taken in his presidency. Notwithstanding Kennedy’s actions, the Bush’s will join in paying final respects to the man.
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Most of us know that George W. and Laura Bush have a deep core of class, manners and dignity. They will be nothing less than compassionate, kind, honorable and respectful in this circumstance.
I remember also that on 9/11, Laura Bush and Ted Kennedy
were at a meeting about education together .. a special indelible connection between them, I’m sure, on that terrifying day.
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On 9/11, Mrs. Bush was headed to the Capitol for a Senate education hearing when the second plane struck the World Trade Center. Committee chairman Ted Kennedy recalls seeing her looking “so alone” as she walked down the hall toward him.
As she tried to reach her daughters, mother and husband, she was struck by the fact that she was watching, with Senator Kennedy, the worst tragedy since his brother John was assassinated. Together they went to the Caucus Room to calm the press. Kennedy says, “You take the measure of a person at a time like that. She is steady, assured, elegant.”
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1001581,00.html
Could you expand on this? What do you mean by “three legged stool”? Do you mean the Church is unstable?
Much less Thomas Wolsey.
but that the Church is betrayed from within.
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So?...what’s the plan for reform? As I see it, Catholic families would need to raise up righteous young men, who would attend corrupt seminaries. If their moral integrity survived the seminary influences, then finally, when they are old, they could enact needed reforms.
This would be a 50 to 80 year project just to **begin** the reform needed. How many souls will be led astray in the mean time?
Is Father Pfleger available?
That was an excellent article you referenced; I’d suggest all read it.
In those first few months after 9/11 the press was not the complete adversary it became in later years least of all against the first lady. And Kennedy himself, in addition to the clip above, commented on her attentiveness in meetings where, in contrast to many self-important political figures, she would come early, listen to all and speak last. So they no doubt remember the respect Kennedy gave Laura even though his relationship with the President became rocky in later years.
Ummm, Ted was Pro-life and anti-sodomy way back in the day. When the tide (Cough, campaign contributions, cough) changed so did Ted. Convictions my a$$, more like follow the money to demagogueville.
Bellflower is right.
It amazes me the capacity Catholics have for justifying the impossibly corrupt.
So he strayed from his mother's intense Catholic viewpoint. What's your point?
Hypocrisy like his should not be rewarded by the heirarchy of Boston. But then, they all believe any Kennedy is a lesser deity, so I suppose it is to be expected. Please do not think I believe he is ENTITLED to such honor. Nothing could be further from the truth.
For the archbishop of Boston to actually participate in such a funeral would be a monstrous mockery, and a black eye for the Church in America. I am ashamed of Boston Catholics who encourage and participate in this.
I strongly agree.
No convictions, duh, just a political/power whore.
True. So great a need for repentance.
the respect Kennedy gave Laura even though his relationship with the President became rocky in later years.
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The sole reason it became rocky was because Teddy’s dirty, lowdown and despicable lies and castigation of anything President Bush did, supported or was promoting, strictly for political haymaking and caving into and feeding his demented fringe base .. until he began to sound a tinge demented himself ... and perhaps even at the expense of his soul.
President Bush couldn’t have been more respectful to him, because of his core decency with everyone.
You just don’t bear that kind of public, vicious false witness .. especially against a such a good person ... and call yourself a Christian .. never mind good Roman Catholic. But then he certainly had ample baggage in the heretical department.
It is what it is.
I'm quite happy, if Cardinal O'Malley doesn't say the Funeral Mass, because that's a real put down in the religious/political realm. Of course the MSM will make it out to be some sort of canonization, but it will be a SECULAR one.
As Salvation said, we have no idea whether or not this man repented of his sins during the course of his illness, so we are in no position to judge the state of his soul. The fact that he's not having a big splashy funeral in the Cathedral with the Cardinal presiding, says a LOT, in my opinion. I believe the Cardinal is trying to avoid the scandal of the big religious hoopla for the man, since he so clearly defied the Church in so many ways in the last 30 years. Having the funeral in a smaller church, without the presence of the Church hierarchy will accomplish that, in my opinion. It will be like the funeral of any other Catholic, except in the eyes of the media. I read, though, that the media presence is going to be kept quite small. I'm not going to watch any of it, so I'll have to find out here on FR what happened.
See Matthew 13:25-30
"This would be a 50 to 80 year project just to **begin** the reform needed."
That said, we do not know Ted's state of soul at death. By the Grace of God he may have confessed and repented. We are all subject to the Mercy of God which is profound and eternal and is available to those who seek It.
Ted had free will to serve God or not with his life. He alone must answer for his advocacy of the death of the innocents. The Church cannot control his or anyone's actions because that denies Free Will. Only Ted could control Ted.
The Church is there for sinners and hypocrites as God desires the salvation of sinners, Satan desires their destruction.
No an annulment does not make the first children bastards. It is not a “legal” annulment but a religious one.
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