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RAND study: Now China wins Taiwan Straits air war (Beats US in air war according to latest analysis)
FIGHT GLOBAL ^ | 8/4/2009 | Stephen Trimble

Posted on 08/05/2009 1:12:44 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Nearly 10 years after a RAND study predicted the US side easily beats China in an air war over the Taiwan Straits, the think-tank has published a new monograph online today that reverses its former opinion.

Now, a People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) bristling with a newly acquired arsenal -- including Su-27 and J-10 fighters, AA-12 and PL-12 missiles, and short-range ballistic missiles -- defeats the US side. Moreover, the PLAAF defeats the US side with or without F-22s, with or without access to Kadena Air Base in Okinawa and with or without the participation of two US carrier battle groups, according to the monograph.

RAND's analysis "suggests that a credible case can be made that the air war for Taiwan could essentially be over before much of the Blue air force has even fired a shot. Threats to Blue air bases and a more evenly matched qualitiative balance combine to paint a very troubling picture."

Personally, I would be careful to trust any military analysis that states -- on two occasions -- the US Marine Corps flies F/A-18E/Fs (... er, no, not in this lifetme). But the overall facts in RAND's air war scenario appear very persuasive, at least to this observer.

In a war over Taiwan, China may think twice about striking sovereign Japanese territory on Okinawa, or sovereign US territory on Guam. But RAND's analysts are prudent to assume that the PLAAF's strategy would seek to maximize its chances of success in a battle over the future of Taiwan.

The scenario assumes a 27:1 kill ratio for the F-22, 4.5:1 kill ratio for the F-15 and a 2.6:1 kill ratio for carrier-based F/A-18E/Fs, which seems to reflect conventional wisdom. But that's not hardly enough. By striking Kadena and Taiwan air bases with missile attacks, the PLAAF can generate 3.7 times more sorties than the blue forces. On the first day, the PLAAF loses 241 jets compared to 147 jets for the Blue forces, including one F-22. But the PLAAF still dramatically outnumbers Blue forces and wins the war of attrition.

Interestingly, the new RAND monograph is not critical at all of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Last year, John Stillon, a senior RAND analyst was fired after he put the think-tank in an awkward position. Stillon's presntation on the results of the Pacific Vision wargame, which were leaked to the press and posted on this blog, noted the F-35 "can't turn, can't climb and can't run". In the new study, RAND says "the F-22 and the still-to-come F-35 can expect to offer meaningful aircraft-on-aircraft technological advantages over what the PLAAF will bring to the fight".


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; onechinapolicy; rand; taiwanairwar; us
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1 posted on 08/05/2009 1:12:44 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

See also here :

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/08/think-tank-china-beats-us-in-simulated-taiwan-air-war/

Think Tank: China Beats U.S. in Simulated Taiwan Air War


2 posted on 08/05/2009 1:14:36 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

There wouldn’t be an airwar. I don’t think that there’s any provocation at all that obama would respond to with military force.


3 posted on 08/05/2009 1:15:03 PM PDT by pgkdan ( I miss Ronald Reagan!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Russia and China have been holding joint war games every other year since 2005. The next one is scheduled for this summer...

[2009] Russia, China plan new joint military exercises

By MARTIN SIEFF, UPI Senior News Analyst
Published: March 26, 2009

WASHINGTON, March 26 (UPI) -- The continuing tensions over Russia's refusal to sell its state-of-the-art land warfare advanced weapons systems to China hasn't interrupted the rhythm of major joint military exercises between the two major land powers on the Eurasian landmass. The latest in the regular, biennial series of exercises between the two nations has been confirmed for this summer.

The next in the now well-established series of exercises called Peace Mission 2009 will be carried out in northeastern China, the Russian Defense Ministry announced March 18, according to a report carried by the RIA Novosti news agency.

The first bilateral Peace Mission maneuvers -- described at the time as counter-terrorism exercises -- were held in Russia and the eastern Chinese province of Shandong in August 2005. As we reported at that time, they were a lot bigger than mere counter-terrorism exercises. Warships, squadrons of combat aircraft and more than 10,000 troops were involved carrying out landings against hypothetically hostile shores. The maneuvers also involved large-scale paratroops drops. The scale and nature of those exercises suggested a trial run for a possible Chinese invasion of Taiwan with Russian support. ..."

http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2009/03/26/Russia_China_plan_new_joint_military_exercises/UPI-25021238094858/
_____________________________________________________

Russia, China flex muscles in joint war games
August 17, 2007

CHEBARKUL, Russia (Reuters) - Russia and China staged their biggest joint exercises on Friday but denied this show of military prowess could lead to the formation of a counterweight to NATO.

"Today's exercises are another step towards strengthening the relations between our countries, a step towards strengthening international peace and security, and first and foremost, the security of our peoples," Putin said.

Fighter jets swooped overhead, commandos jumped from helicopters on to rooftops and the boom of artillery shells shook the firing range in Russia's Ural mountains as two of the largest armies in the world were put through their paces.

The exercises take place against a backdrop of mounting rivalry between the West, and Russia and China for influence over Central Asia, a strategic region that has huge oil, gas and mineral resources.

Russia's growing assertiveness is also causing jitters in the West. Putin announced at the firing range that Russia was resuming Soviet-era sorties by its strategic bomber aircraft near NATO airspace.
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-29030120070817?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
_____________________________________________________

War Games: Russia, China Grow Alliance
September 23, 2005

In foreign policy it’s critical to “know thine enemy.” So American policymakers should be aware that Russia and China are inching closer to identifying a common enemy — the United States.

The two would-be superpowers held unprecedented joint military exercises Aug. 18-25. Soothingly named “Peace Mission 2005,” the drills took place on the Shandong peninsula on the Yellow Sea, and included nearly 10,000 troops. Russian long-range bombers, the army, navy, air force, marine, airborne and logistics units from both countries were also involved.

Moscow and Beijing claim the maneuvers were aimed at combating terrorism, extremism and separatism (the last a veiled reference to Taiwan), but it’s clear they were an attempt to counter-balance American military might.

Joint war games are a logical outcome of the Sino-Russian Friendship and Cooperation Treaty signed in 2001, and reflect the shared worldview and growing economic ties between the two Eastern Hemisphere giants."
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed092605a.cfm
_____________________________________________________

From the Sino-Russian Joint Statement of April 23, 1997:
"The two sides [China and Russia] shall, in the spirit of partnership, strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/HI29Ag01.html

4 posted on 08/05/2009 1:15:42 PM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: SeekAndFind

Taiwan should go nuclear.


5 posted on 08/05/2009 1:18:15 PM PDT by Tai_Chung
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To: SeekAndFind

China would be wise to wait until “The Divine One’s” new crop of pilots come on line. Once the new “one’s” are in place China will clean our clock.


6 posted on 08/05/2009 1:20:07 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: SeekAndFind
Interesting analysis and I agree with the kill ratios aspect of it. The big question is would China sacrifice most of its air force to get across the Strait and the next question is how good is their operational level command and control for that size of an operation. Also, it may be tough on them to generate sufficient sorties when your airfields are being hit by Tomahawks.
7 posted on 08/05/2009 1:21:52 PM PDT by aegiscg47
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To: ETL
strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."

Could be a quote from Castro, Obama, Chavez, George Bush, Sr., lil Kim, John Kerry, ............

8 posted on 08/05/2009 1:21:56 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: SeekAndFind

This is a No s—t report. We send them enough money and give them enough time and they can out manufacture us and out people us on our best day.

The combination of capability and quantity are overwhelming. It should not have taken long to figure that out.


9 posted on 08/05/2009 1:23:21 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Half of the population is below average)
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To: SeekAndFind

Not much longer.

2012 Mayan Calendar end of the world not too far off.


10 posted on 08/05/2009 1:26:53 PM PDT by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
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To: Prokopton

True, except that five out of the six seek a *communist* new world order.


11 posted on 08/05/2009 1:26:54 PM PDT by ETL (ALL the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: aegiscg47
Also, it may be tough on them to generate sufficient sorties when your airfields are being hit by Tomahawks.

Why no B-52 carpet bombing?

12 posted on 08/05/2009 1:28:24 PM PDT by frithguild (Can I drill your head now?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Interesting, but moot IMHO.
China will control us via holding our debt.


13 posted on 08/05/2009 1:29:08 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: SeekAndFind
I wonder if RAND did a study on what the Arab-Israeli air war would look like before the 1967. I think that they fail to take into account that the Taiwanese would be fighting for survival and the PRCs would be fighting for further oppression from their police state.

I also bet that the ROC has coastal defense systems that RAND doesn't know about.

14 posted on 08/05/2009 1:30:18 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: SeekAndFind

Not surprizing, we dont even dominate baseball and basketball anymore.


15 posted on 08/05/2009 1:33:46 PM PDT by Hacklehead (Liberalism is the art of taking what works, breaking it, and then blaming conservatives.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I bet Abe Lincoln could beat George Washington in bowling too.


16 posted on 08/05/2009 1:35:16 PM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: SeekAndFind
First of all, it says that the PLAAF wins the war of attrition based on a single day out come where the results are very lopsided against the PLAAF. But the lopsided fight against the F-22s, F-15s, and F-18s will continue well pasyt the first day, and each day the PLAAF will lose more and more of their J-11s, J-10s, and SU-30s, and Su27s...leaving them with loder antiquated fighters in numbers.

Yes, they have many more aircraft...but given them a week of that typoe of loss, and they will lose the air war by default because they will have very little modern aircraft left.

Second, as to the assertion that the Marins do not fly Hornets, this is incorrect. The Marines do fly Hornets off of the decks of nuclear aircraft carriers.


17 posted on 08/05/2009 1:47:35 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
China would be wise to wait until “The Divine One’s” new crop of pilots come on line.

I might be un-informed, but who on earth is this "Divine One" ?
18 posted on 08/05/2009 1:49:08 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

Yep, their Spads will never get off the ground... cost cutting measures you know.


19 posted on 08/05/2009 1:56:03 PM PDT by PIF
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To: SeekAndFind

Umm, you voted him to succeed President Bush. Ring a bell?


20 posted on 08/05/2009 1:59:08 PM PDT by PIF
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