Posted on 07/24/2009 8:23:57 AM PDT by Schnucki
Barack Obama is facing the anger of liberal Massachusetts today after being engulfed in a race row over the arrest of a black Harvard scholar.
Mr Obama is facing criticism after saying that white police officers had acted 'stupidly' in arresting Henry Louis Gates, a prominent black Harvard University scholar, who was locked outside his own home.
Police chiefs accused him of alienated officers across the country with his statement.
But last night Mr Obama stood by his remarks, saying cooler heads should have prevailed.
Commentators said the president had crossed a line by passing judgement without all the facts, and police in Massachusetts were said to be 'deflated' by his comments.
Sergeant James Crowley, who arrested Gates at his home in Cambridge, Massachusetts, said he was disappointed in the president.
'I support the president to a point, yes, I think it's disappointing that he waded into what should be a local issue and something that plays out here,' he said.
'As he himself said ... he doesn't know all the facts.'
'The President has alienated public safety officers across the country by his comments,' said David Holway, president of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which represents 15,000 public security officials.
In a letter to Mr Obama, he sought an apology. 'You not only used poor judgement in your choice of words, you indicted all members of the Cambridge police department and public safety officers across the country.'
But Mr Obama stood by his views last night, telling ABC News he was 'surprised' by the controversy surrounding his remark.
'I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home
'I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
You can argue with a cop at a poker game or at a bar.
You can’t argue with one while he answering is a burglary call. That IS stupid.
Do other American citizens deserve to be attacked by the President of the United States, in front of millions of Americans, implying they are stupid and racist before knowing the facts?
Can falsely alleging that someone is a racist, cause them great harm, ruin their careers and get them black balled and even cause harm to them and their families?
Obama was shooting from the hip.
Now correct me if I’m wrong, but that is a habit that the Demon Hypocrite Rats have made a habit of attributing to REPUBLICAN Presidents.
This is better viewed as a clear cut issue of police abuse that crosses racial lines. If you don't believe me, go to youtube and you will find many, many whites who were tased simply for arguing for a cop. To repeat: A FREE AMERICAN CITIZEN HAS A RIGHT TO ARGUE WITH A COP WITHOUT BEING ARRESTED. Race should not enter into it one way or another. Many allegedly "limited government" conservatives have totally lost this distinction.
If "the Professor" had argued logically and calmly and not just been an out of control nutcase, I would agree. But clearly, this guy was pushing and pushing and pushing. He deserved to be arrested.
Oh hogwash. You are either a knee-jerk cop hater, or you (like Obama) haven't bothered to gather the facts before stating an opinion. (The latter, of course, would reveal that you are the former.)
I have a good lawyer friend who stated it as simply as it can be stated: “The street is not the place to argue with the police; the court room is.”
More importantly, you can argue with the police all you want, BUT if your argument disturbs the peace or creates a disruption for your neighbors, then you are in fact breaking the law! And as such, you can be arrested!
I think you are lost in the minutia of this situation instead of seeing that this ALL revolves around Mr. Gates bringing in the race card - not the police officer. So, if Mr. Gates had simply cooperated with the investigation without the attitude and creating the disruption, then he would never have been arrested.
Location aside, you can still simply argue without creating a disturbance. Mr. Gates WANTED the disturbance; this was his opportunity to knock the white man down. There is absolutely NO other reason for this situation to have gotten to this point. According to the police report, this officer attempted to keep things under control and Mr. Gates did not want that!
Do other American citizens deserve to be attacked by the President of the United States, in front of millions of Americans, implying they are stupid and racist before knowing the facts?
Can falsely alleging that someone is a racist, cause them great harm, ruin their careers and get them black balled and even cause harm to them and their families?
That is an entirely separate issue. If you don't believe me, go to youtube
Utube? lol...
Ya tell me this is an entirely separate issue, then you refer me to U-tube to watch entirely different events and separate incidents.
Ya see something wrong with your logic here?
I was making the point that police arrest blacks and whites for doing this all the time but that doesn't make it right. Now....that I have answered your question directly: do you think it is legitimate to arrest or tase people for the simple act or arguing with police? That is why I referred you to youtube which shows numerous such cases (which have often been condmened here in the past!)
I agree that is now the case, especially in recent years. In my view, however, it shouldn't be the case. Do you agree or disagree? A free American should have a perfect right to argue with a policeman without fear of arrest. Just because that is now not true doesn't make it right. This is not "minutia." Like it or not, this is a major case and illustrative of a major problem that transcends race.
He did, when he interrupted Sissy Gibbs’ presser today. Thing is, he started the race baiting by even raising the week old story and then segwaying into racial profile for a lengthy ramble straight from his racist ACORN playbook. Now, he is making it personal as if he was innocent of raising the stink and is being such a nice guy—have a beer with me—and smoothing out the controversy even though this evil white racism remains undead.
I am not sure if I agree; let me explain. In this particular situation, where a police officer arrives onsite with a report of a break-in, they respond to find someone is actually INSIDE - the right thing to do is cooperate with the officer in his investigation. You do NOT go after the man for doing his job.
I have been driving since 1983 - I have had two tickets (both on the same weekend in 2007). Come to find out my speed-o-meter was out of whack. Anyway, both times, I was upset, since I had never had a ticket, but both times, I THANKED the officer for doing his job. That is all he was doing, his job.
Keep in mind, I have argued with police, in public. I got pulled over because the officers thought that my tags (which are in the window) were out of date (the last number was hard to read because the number bled into the outer ring). They pulled me over and as soon as he walked up he told the other officer, “Oh, it was just hard to see, they are good.” He told me why he pulled me over and said, that my tags were good. BUT...
Then he wanted to see my insurance and my license and then wanted to search my car. I showed him my license and insurance and told him, “NO, you cannot search my car. On what account?” He said, “For our safety.” I told him, that he pulled me over for expired tags, that “probable cause” has been solved, at this point he has no need to continue this stop. He said that he could get a warrant. I said, then get one. At that time I asked for his name, badge number and the same info from his partner. I got the info and they left. I did not shout, I did not create a scene (in a 7-Eleven parking lot) or anything and I never heard anything else about that police stop.
But, having friends and family in law enforcement, and recounting the Gates situation, when a suspect (and he was a suspect until he proved otherwise) comes at you with violent or angry intent, you will become defensive! It is part of their training - survival instincts.
The White House acted stupidly allowing Obama to answer the question without the teleprompter.
Now, in a direct answer to the question that you put to me and dragnet2: yes, I believe people can and should be arrested for arguing with the police - if they are breaking other laws in the process. If you are creating a disturbance and interfering with the police in the completion of his duties then YES.
The police serve multiple purposes, including to maintain the peace. They also must take control and squelch unrest when necessary. Do I believe that the action Officer Crowley took was the ONLY course available, NO - but it was a LEGAL option and he took it. IMHO!
When Bambam looks at a white cop, he is incapable of seeing anything but a racist.
Ogletree is Gates's lawyer.
Captain Kirk,
I think you/we are having two separate conversations here. I agree we should be able to “argue” will a law enforcement officer without fear of arrest. However, I think the real issue your getting at is the Disorderly Conduct laws on the book across the nation.
If I were in charge of writing a clear well defined law on Disorderly Conduct, from what I know if this Gates issue, he’d be guilty and arrested.
However, in most places around the country Disorderly Conduct is a vague catch all law that is used quite often used to usurp your rights, which is what I think you are arguing.
For example - here in Wisconsin we have the right to open carry firearms - however, if I were to holster up and go for a walk I can assure you that withing 5 minutes there’d be no less than 4 squad cars on me and I’d be arrested for Disorderly Conduct.
The problem is Disorderly Conduct laws - and I’m with you that from Conservative standpoint - it’s vagueness leads to violations of our rights and creates the impression and often the reality of a police state.
That said - Gates is the guilty party here -
My two pennies anyway
LOL!!! Yeah, they might only vote to relect him one more time.
Mass is in the bag and firmly on the plantation.
“Your friend is a loose cannon!”
ADD!:
and a hotheaded, disrespectful, police-baiting, Anti-American Professional RACIST!
With only six interminable, excruciating months allegedly in Office, OBOZO has thrown under the Bus America’s Entire Free Enterprise System, the Banking System, all Doctors and Health Providers, Our Proud Military, the entire Republican Party and all Voters who didn’t support him, all of America’s Past Good deeds and everything else that is America even forbidding Businesses to have Conventions in Las Vegas! Sounds more like Hugo Chavez’s mentor, than a President of the United States doesn’t it!
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