I agree that is now the case, especially in recent years. In my view, however, it shouldn't be the case. Do you agree or disagree? A free American should have a perfect right to argue with a policeman without fear of arrest. Just because that is now not true doesn't make it right. This is not "minutia." Like it or not, this is a major case and illustrative of a major problem that transcends race.
I am not sure if I agree; let me explain. In this particular situation, where a police officer arrives onsite with a report of a break-in, they respond to find someone is actually INSIDE - the right thing to do is cooperate with the officer in his investigation. You do NOT go after the man for doing his job.
I have been driving since 1983 - I have had two tickets (both on the same weekend in 2007). Come to find out my speed-o-meter was out of whack. Anyway, both times, I was upset, since I had never had a ticket, but both times, I THANKED the officer for doing his job. That is all he was doing, his job.
Keep in mind, I have argued with police, in public. I got pulled over because the officers thought that my tags (which are in the window) were out of date (the last number was hard to read because the number bled into the outer ring). They pulled me over and as soon as he walked up he told the other officer, “Oh, it was just hard to see, they are good.” He told me why he pulled me over and said, that my tags were good. BUT...
Then he wanted to see my insurance and my license and then wanted to search my car. I showed him my license and insurance and told him, “NO, you cannot search my car. On what account?” He said, “For our safety.” I told him, that he pulled me over for expired tags, that “probable cause” has been solved, at this point he has no need to continue this stop. He said that he could get a warrant. I said, then get one. At that time I asked for his name, badge number and the same info from his partner. I got the info and they left. I did not shout, I did not create a scene (in a 7-Eleven parking lot) or anything and I never heard anything else about that police stop.
But, having friends and family in law enforcement, and recounting the Gates situation, when a suspect (and he was a suspect until he proved otherwise) comes at you with violent or angry intent, you will become defensive! It is part of their training - survival instincts.
Now, in a direct answer to the question that you put to me and dragnet2: yes, I believe people can and should be arrested for arguing with the police - if they are breaking other laws in the process. If you are creating a disturbance and interfering with the police in the completion of his duties then YES.
The police serve multiple purposes, including to maintain the peace. They also must take control and squelch unrest when necessary. Do I believe that the action Officer Crowley took was the ONLY course available, NO - but it was a LEGAL option and he took it. IMHO!
Captain Kirk,
I think you/we are having two separate conversations here. I agree we should be able to “argue” will a law enforcement officer without fear of arrest. However, I think the real issue your getting at is the Disorderly Conduct laws on the book across the nation.
If I were in charge of writing a clear well defined law on Disorderly Conduct, from what I know if this Gates issue, he’d be guilty and arrested.
However, in most places around the country Disorderly Conduct is a vague catch all law that is used quite often used to usurp your rights, which is what I think you are arguing.
For example - here in Wisconsin we have the right to open carry firearms - however, if I were to holster up and go for a walk I can assure you that withing 5 minutes there’d be no less than 4 squad cars on me and I’d be arrested for Disorderly Conduct.
The problem is Disorderly Conduct laws - and I’m with you that from Conservative standpoint - it’s vagueness leads to violations of our rights and creates the impression and often the reality of a police state.
That said - Gates is the guilty party here -
My two pennies anyway