You wrote:
“Not quite. Read Acts 15:7-21. Peter spoke, then Barnabas and Paul, and James rules, even saying “My judgment is this....” It was not a consensus, but a ruling by James.”
No. After Peter spoke the others agreed with him. The issue was DONE.
“Galatians 2:11-13, which takes place before the passage I cited in Acts, also indicates that Peter was subordinate to James, even though James was wrong in his beliefs at the time:
No. The passage in no way indicates that Peter was subodinate to James.
“Note that Cephas (Peter) was in Antioch, which means that James’ influence was not just confined to Jerusalem.”
Influence. Not authority.
“Early Christian tradition (see the writings of Eusebius, for example) also places James as the head of the church in Jerusalem.”
Right. And who is denying that here?
“Eusebius, quoting Hegissupus, also records that Jesus’ cousin, Simeon, was appointed head of the church in Jerusalem after James was martyred.”
Again, who is denying that here?
“I agree with you that Peter was Bishop of Rome. History records that. As a Protestant, I disagree with you that this means anything special, but that disagreement doesn’t rise to the level of anything worth arguing about, especially in these perilous times.”
Wrong. The only reason why these times are perilous is because of the Protestant Revolution. No such evolution, and then there never would have been a modern rise of Islam, or communism, or socialism, etc.
“We’re both brothers in Christ and are called to be the salt and light of the world. That’s the important thing.”
We’re separated brethen. I answer the call given to me.
Vlad: Right. And who is denying that here?/
Well, you are. The council is known as the Council of Jerusalem. You admit that James was the head of the church in Jerusalem. Thus, he had the final say.
Vlad: No. After Peter spoke the others agreed with him. The issue was DONE.
Again, read Acts 15:7-21. There was a debate. Debate means that some were on one side of the issue and some were on the other side. Peter spoke. Paul and Barnabas then spoke. Finally, after everyone had their say, James ruled:And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Brethren, listen to me: Simon has related how God first visited to take out of the nations a people for his name. And with this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written: After these things I will return, and will rebuild the tabernacle of David which is fallen, and will rebuild its ruins, and will set it up, so that the residue of men may seek out the Lord, and all the nations on whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who does these things known from eternity. Wherefore I judge, not to trouble those who from the nations turn to God; but to write to them to abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood. For Moses, from generations of old, has in every city those who preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath. (Douay-Rheims)There is no indication that ALL agreed with Peter after he spoke. You're reading things into the Bible that are not there.After everyone had their say, James made a ruling. Then the debate was over.
In a court setting, who says "I judge" or "I rule" when the case is over or an attorney makes a motion? The judge, of course. The judge speaks last and has the final say.
The Council of Jerusalem is a recounting of history from the Bible that is very simple to understand. Any interpretation asserting that James did not have the final ruling violates the plain meaning of the text.
My apologies. In my last post I wrote that the Bible passage was taken from Douay-Rheims version. It was actually from another version. Here is the entire Douay-Rheims translation of the passage:
AND some coming down from Judea, taught the brethren: That except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved. 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small contest with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain others of the other side, should go up to the apostles and priests to Jerusalem about this question. 3 They therefore being brought on their way by the church, passed through Phenice, and Samaria, relating the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church, and by the apostles and ancients, declaring how great things God had done with them. 5 But there arose some of the sect of the Pharisees that believed, saying: They must be circumcised, and be commanded to observe the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and ancients assembled to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know, that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, who knoweth the hearts, gave testimony, giving unto them the Holy Ghost, as well as to us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why tempt you God to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe to be saved, in like manner as they also.
12 And all the multitude held their peace; and they heard Barnabas and Paul telling what great signs and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying: Men, brethren, hear me. 14 Simon hath related how God first visited to take of the Gentiles a people to his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets, as it is written:
16 After these things I will return, and will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and the ruins thereof I will rebuild, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all nations upon whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who doth these things.
18 To the Lord was his own work known from the beginning of the world. 19 For which cause I judge that they, who from among the Gentiles are converted to God, are not to be disquieted. 20 But that we write unto them, that they refrain themselves from the pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him in the synagogues, where he is read every sabbath.
22 Then it pleased the apostles and ancients, with the whole church, to choose men of their own company, and to send to Antioch, with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas, who was surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren. 23 Writing by their hands: The apostles and ancients, brethren, to the brethren of the Gentiles that are at Antioch, and in Syria and Cilicia, greeting. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment: 25 It hath seemed good to us, being assembled together, to choose out men, and to send them unto you, with our well beloved Barnabas and Paul: 26 Men that have given their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who themselves also will, by word of mouth, tell you the same things. 28 For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us, to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things: 29 That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which things keeping yourselves, you shall do well. Fare ye well.
The meaning of the passage is not changed. However, I wanted to get my facts correct.
Thanks,
-Mike