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To: vladimir998
DM:“Early Christian tradition (see the writings of Eusebius, for example) also places James as the head of the church in Jerusalem.”

Vlad: Right. And who is denying that here?/

Well, you are. The council is known as the Council of Jerusalem. You admit that James was the head of the church in Jerusalem. Thus, he had the final say.

Vlad: No. After Peter spoke the others agreed with him. The issue was DONE.

Again, read Acts 15:7-21. There was a debate. Debate means that some were on one side of the issue and some were on the other side. Peter spoke. Paul and Barnabas then spoke. Finally, after everyone had their say, James ruled:
And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Brethren, listen to me: Simon has related how God first visited to take out of the nations a people for his name. And with this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written: After these things I will return, and will rebuild the tabernacle of David which is fallen, and will rebuild its ruins, and will set it up, so that the residue of men may seek out the Lord, and all the nations on whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who does these things known from eternity. Wherefore I judge, not to trouble those who from the nations turn to God; but to write to them to abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood. For Moses, from generations of old, has in every city those who preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath. (Douay-Rheims)
There is no indication that ALL agreed with Peter after he spoke. You're reading things into the Bible that are not there.

After everyone had their say, James made a ruling. Then the debate was over.

In a court setting, who says "I judge" or "I rule" when the case is over or an attorney makes a motion? The judge, of course. The judge speaks last and has the final say.

The Council of Jerusalem is a recounting of history from the Bible that is very simple to understand. Any interpretation asserting that James did not have the final ruling violates the plain meaning of the text.


387 posted on 07/08/2009 9:45:40 AM PDT by DallasMike
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To: DallasMike

You wrote:

“Again, read Acts 15:7-21. There was a debate. Debate means that some were on one side of the issue and some were on the other side. Peter spoke. Paul and Barnabas then spoke. Finally, after everyone had their say, James ruled:”

Yet scripture actually says:

“The apostles and presbyters met together TO SEE about the matter. AFTER MUCH DEBATE HAD TAKEN PLACE, PETER got up and said to them....”

In other words, as the following author pointed out, it happened just as I said it did:

However, whereas it does say (in verse 13) how Paul and Barnabas “fall silent,” allowing James to respond, this does not take away from the entire assembly “falling silent” after Peter’s teaching in verse 12. Why? Because we are dealing with 2 Greek words. In 13, the verb is “sigesai” (infinitive aorist: meaning that Paul and Barnabas finished talking). In verse 12, it’s “esigese” (past tense aorist usage — meaning that the assembly REMAINED SILENT after Peter’s address). And, indeed, after Peter speaks, all debate stops. The matter had been settled. http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/orthodox/pope_acts_15_james_and_peter.htm

It’s an interesting article you might want to read it.


413 posted on 07/08/2009 1:43:54 PM PDT by vladimir998
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