Posted on 07/07/2009 10:30:02 AM PDT by TheRiverNile
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict called on Tuesday for a "world political authority" to manage the global economy and for more government regulation of national economies to pull the world out of the current crisis and avoid a repeat.
The pope made his call for a re-think of the way the world economy is run in a new encyclical which touched on a number of social issues but whose main connecting thread was how the current crisis has affected both rich and poor nations.
Parts of the encyclical, titled "Charity in Truth," seemed bound to upset free marketeers because of its underlying rejection of unbridled capitalism and unregulated market forces, which he said had led to "thoroughly destructive" abuse of the system.
The pope said every economic decision had a moral consequence and called for "forms of redistribution" of wealth overseen by governments to help those most affected by crises.
Benedict said "there is an urgent need of a true world political authority" whose task would be "to manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result."
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
No, he’s not gone. He still belongs to our church and preaches sermons there. He’s a Godly man and a former Catholic. I’m not crying. I’m just surprised since you are so against divorcees and remarriage that you couldn’t see that a protestant pastor is also against it.
Much appreciate your thoughtful and reasoned reply.
. . . and your perceptiveness.
Thanks.
These cartoons may bear some looking into.
Sigh.
Do NOT post Jack Chick material here at all. Do not mention him.
You wrote:
“I’m just surprised since you are so against divorcees and remarriage that you couldn’t see that a protestant pastor is also against it.”
I could see it. And I know there are others out there too. But isn’t it a Biblial and historical Christian principle too? Isn’t that bigger than one pastor in New York state?
Of course it’s bigger. But since he’s a protestant, I thought it might please you to see that even MY pastor is against marrying divorced people. It cost him at times to stand up for that belief.
You wrote:
“But since he’s a protestant, I thought it might please you to see that even MY pastor is against marrying divorced people. It cost him at times to stand up for that belief.”
And ye you can’t be pleased about Catholic priests who live up to their vows their whole lives?
For example:
"All those diocese which have good bishops who insist on orthodox teaching have seen their vocations to the priesthood go up in recent years. It has happened in my diocese."
"Because it’s true. I’ve seen it myself numerous times. I have had to teach the faith to a number of “former” or “ex” Catholics. Some accepted it and returned to the faith. Others, especially those who were divorced, wanted to use birth control, supported abortion, gay marraige, cohabitation etc. were too wedded to their Protestant sects to change."
Nope. You are the one doing that. You link to AMERICAN STATISTICS. I was writing about the whole world!
If you too the time to actually read what you linked to you would have noticed this:
Graduate Seminarians (that’s future priests in case you didn’t know):
Really? All of them?
1990 = 51,603 1995 = 54,154 2000 = 55,968 2005 = 58,538
(From the same table:)
Catholic Population:
1990 = 928.5m
1995 = 989.4m
2000 = 1.045b
2005 - 1.115b
Do the math and tell me the ratio of Graduate Seminarians to the Catholic Population is increasing. In fact show one single figure where the Ordained Priesthood shows an increase.
So, the number of seminarians world wide went up 7,000 in just 15 years. It’s still going up by the way. Again, these were the statistics YOU LINKED TO but apparently weren’t interested in actually reading. How embarrassing for you!
“Graduate-level seminarians 8,325 5,279 4,063 3,172 3,474 3,308 3,286”
Yeah, in America. I never said anything about this just being about America. And you INCREDIBLY wrote: “ Once again you mistake a localized occurrence and relate it to the universe.”
Play all the games you wish. The fact is the worldwide supply of Priests is diminishing.
So, according to you, the whole world is “localized”? Again, how embarrassing for you.
Fortunately there is no rule that you must make sense.
I have no problem with priests who have been faithful to their call. My problem is with the Vatican and others who kept pushing pedophiles from church to church without addressing the crimes. I pray that’s stopping.
Are you serious? Do you read what I’m typing to you?
I didn’t say that I wanted socalism or that I wanted to take away the wealth of others. Your attacks on me are a pitiful attempt to deflect from what we are talking about.
True socialism wouldn’t work in this world as I have already described to you.
My point is that the Pope who’s only allegiance is to God and not to individual countries should want to inspire people to great acts of charity in both business and personal worlds that would in essence drive true socialism. CEO’s would take less pay in the name of justice. There would be more economic equality because people themselves would strive for that.
Like any true change that happens in our culture it is driven from the ground up.
You wrote:
“Your habit of relating your personal, localized experiences as universal proof makes it difficult to discern when you suddenly leap to the World.”
Reggie, there is nothing more universal than the WHOLE WORLD when it comes to vocations. I said vocations were up. They are. You then linked to a page that said EXACTLY THAT while denying they were up in the US. I never said anything about vocations in ONLY the US. My parish priest is from India. At my old parish the priest was from France. I had a chaplain from Poland. This was all in the USA.
“For example:”All those diocese which have good bishops who insist on orthodox teaching have seen their vocations to the priesthood go up in recent years. It has happened in my diocese.”
Again, good bishops and good diocese exist in EVERY NATION which has Catholic bishops and diocese - and they’re doing better and better in vocations compared to just a few years ago.
“Really? All of them?”
Most yes. And that means vocations are UP. Which is EACTLY what I said and EXACTLY what your linked page proved.
“Catholic Population:1990 = 928.5m 1995 = 989.4m2000 = 1.045b2005 - 1.115b Do the math and tell me the ratio of Graduate Seminarians to the Catholic Population is increasing.”
Reggie, saying I said ANYTHING about that “ratio” is simply not true on your part. I said vocations are UP. They are UP. That is IRREFUTABLE. To now claim I said something or meant something about the “ratio of Graduate Seminarians to the Catholic Population...increasing” is completely wrong.
“In fact show one single figure where the Ordained Priesthood shows an increase.”
I said vocations are UP. They are UP and your owm linked statistics prove that. Why do you have to try to distort what I said? I was right. You were wrong. And that is the way it will stay. You can now try to distort my words, but you will fail utterly. I said vocations are UP. I was right and your own linked to stats prove it.
“Play all the games you wish. The fact is the worldwide supply of Priests is diminishing.”
I said vocations are UP. I was right all along and you were wrong all along. You can now try all you want to distort that fact, but it won’t work.
“Fortunately there is no rule that you must make sense.”
I not only make sense, I am right. You’re still wrong and probably still very embarrassed as you dig your hole deeper.
You wrote:
“I have no problem with priests who have been faithful to their call. My problem is with the Vatican and others who kept pushing pedophiles from church to church without addressing the crimes. I pray that’s stopping.”
In most diocese around the world that never happened. n those diocese where it did happen it ended years ago. It should never have happened in the first place.
And I still never saw a positive word from you about anything Catholic. You were the one who brought up “positive”.
I’ve been positive about Catholics when they stuck to the Bible not to the extra biblical stuff they espouse. I don’t HATE Catholics. I, in fact, am concerned about your salvation since you don’t seem to believe that you can be saved and know it in this world instead of waiting until the next and then wondering IF.
Yes, it will. Just make sure you know Jesus as your Saviour and Lord before it happens. Then rest in His peace as things progress.
Yes, I'm reading it. I think that's the problem. The "true socialism" thing threw me off.
True socialism wouldn’t work in this world as I have already described to you.
That wasn't clear to me.
My point is that the Pope who’s only allegiance is to God and not to individual countries should want to inspire people to great acts of charity in both business and personal worlds that would in essence drive true socialism.
Now you've thrown me off again. What is "true socialism"? First you say, "true socialism", then you said it wouldn't work in this world, and now you say it is something that can actually be driven (by acts of charity)
There would be more economic equality because people themselves would strive for that.
What is "economic equality"?
Cordially,
Oh geez... I guess when I say true socialism you mean final stage communism but you don’t need a totalarian government if people truely want to be abide by the rules but so you can deal with this conversation easier we can use your term.
I really don’t even know where to start... first I guess we have to define terms for you.
Reality is the world we live in.
Idealism is something that is strived for but rarely achieved espically on a large scale.
Are you comfortable with those terms now?
In reality people are too easily drawn into sin to allow final stage communism to actually work.
However, as individuals and societies we naturally want to strive for a better system then we have because it’s imperfect.
Enter the Pope. The Pope look everyone we should want to strive to treat all as equals. To love thy neighbor. To not be greedy. The Pope should say to CEO’s. Look hey guys we don’t care if you make alot of money but why not share that wealth with your workers?
Why do you have a problem with the Pope saying that? Do you have some guilt because you’re a greedy business owner? Otherwise I don’t understand what your problem is with that.
I think individuals should want to “share the wealth”. It doesn’t requirement Governments to forcibly redistribute wealth. If instead of building 50 million dollar houses you settle for a 5 million dollar house and use the rest of the money for charity would that be so bad? If a few people got that money that really didn’t need it that would be unfortunate but is it any less unfortunate that a society that has more than a few Ken Lay’s running corporations?
Economic equality is members of society not abusing their power and position for ridiculous fortunes that were far out of the realm of reasonable.
Greed is a horrible horrible thing in this world.. but I’m not saying Governments should force people not to be greedy. What I’m saying is that the Pope has every right to encourage the world to work together more.
You wrote:
“I’ve been positive about Catholics when they stuck to the Bible not to the extra biblical stuff they espouse.”
I said, “And I still never saw a positive word from you about anything Catholic.” But you’re now saying “Catholics”. I am not just talking about the people. Also, we have nothing that contradicts the scriptures and we probably have no more “extra biblical” stuff than you do. And what we have that is “extra biblical” does not contradict the Bible.
“I don’t HATE Catholics. I, in fact, am concerned about your salvation since you don’t seem to believe that you can be saved and know it in this world instead of waiting until the next and then wondering IF.”
No one can know with absolute assurance that he will be saved since no one here has yet died. No orthodox Christian ever preached either absolute assurance or once-saved-always-saved. Those are not biblical or historical beliefs. They are phony baloney Protestant novelties.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2964/assurance.html
Since it is logicaly impossible for a person to know about his end (in steadfastness that is) until the end actually has arrived, and since absolute assurance is not an orthodox Christian belief to begin with, I reject it entirely. I refuse to commit the sin of presumption and I refuse to simply fool myself as most Protestants do. I, instead, trust in Christ and His Church, and have no fears about my salvation. I, instead, have the same hope that St. Paul had. In his letters, St. Paul uses the phrases: “the hope of salvation” (1 Thess 5:8) or “hope of eternal life” (Titus 1:2; 3:7). Is we were truly assured of salvation in the sense that Protestants believe then there would be no need for hope. Hope is not the same as assurance (Romans 8:24). As the Catechism of the Catholic Church says (CCC 2090): “Hope is the confident expectation of divine blessing and the beatific vision of God; it is also the fear of offending God’s love and incurring punishment.”
My view is the Biblcal view. It is the view of St. Paul. I will accept no other than that taught by the Church in scripture and through the ages.
A global governance is neither workable, Biblical healthy, or honorable.
Just will control such a beast?
Man is too corrupt.
Just who will control such a beast?
“Though I’m all for working toward such any workable Biblical, healthy, honorable way.””
A global governance is neither workable, Biblical healthy, or honorable.
Just will control such a beast?
Man is too corrupt.
1. In that post ref’d above, I was referrng to working for
PEACE AND JUSTICE IN ANY HONORABLE WAY.
THAT WOULD
NOT
INCLUDE ANY GLOBAL GOVERNMENT—particularly having anything to do with the satanic one currently in power.
Certainly man is too corrupt.
And will be until the evil doers are removed at Armageddon.
Thx.
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