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Rest In Peace, old friend, your work is finished.....
If you want ON or OFF the DIESEL ”KnOcK” LIST just FReepmail me.....
This is a fairly HIGH VOLUME ping list on some days.....
Posted on 07/02/2009 7:10:12 AM PDT by doug from upland
Green Car Journal: As a 'Moon Shot,' the Electric Car is a Challenging Mission The race to deliver electric vehicles to the market is on and competition is heating up. But like the Apollo Program, success is likely to be measured over many years and will come at great cost.
San Luis Obispo, Calif. (PRWEB) July 2, 2009 -- As we mark the 40th anniversary of successfully landing a man on the moon this month, it's interesting to note the many comparisons that position electric cars as the next 'moon shot.' There are synergies at work since, after all, the Apollo Program's lunar rover may be the most high-profile electric car in history. But the editors at Green Car Journal caution that even as get-there-at-all-costs momentum builds for electric cars in Washington DC, it's a giant leap of faith to assume that today's activities will lead to an affordable all-electric car in your garage anytime soon.
"What people overlook is that accomplishing 'big picture' programs like Apollo require accepting the concept of unlimited spending to achieve the mission," says Ron Cogan, editor and publisher of the industry authority Green Car Journal and editor of GreenCar.com. "Current levels of unprecedented federal spending notwithstanding, electric cars are not an exclusive answer to future transportation challenges and consumers will not be willing to buy them at all costs."
What people overlook is that accomplishing 'big picture' programs like Apollo require accepting the concept of unlimited spending to achieve the mission Current levels of unprecedented federal spending notwithstanding, electric cars are not an exclusive answer to future transportation challenges and consumers will not be willing to buy them at all costs. There's a shroud of denial that regularly excludes the real cost of battery electric vehicles from discussion of their considerable benefits I understand first-hand the advantages of an electric car with its high efficiency, zero localized emissions, and petroleum-free operation. But I also recognize the importance of an affordable cost so most people can buy them, and that's a crucial issue that's rarely, if ever, discussed. People should be asking why. In current dollars, the Apollo Program cost well over $100 billion. At its end there was no imperative to produce a consumer product to sell at a reasonable cost. Such is not the case with electric cars. Even after the Obama Administration's $2.4 billion in grants to promote electric car and advanced battery development, plus an additional $25 billion loan program and $7,500 per-vehicle subsidies that could ultimately run into additional billions of dollars, there's no assurance that electric cars will be affordable after the money is spent.
"There's a shroud of denial that regularly excludes the real cost of battery electric vehicles from discussion of their considerable benefits," adds Cogan, who documented the rise and fall of electric vehicles for both the Green Car Industry Newsletter and Motor Trend magazine in the 1990s. He also test drove all major electric vehicles of the era and spent a year behind the wheel of a GM EV1. "I understand first-hand the advantages of an electric car with its high efficiency, zero localized emissions, and petroleum-free operation. But I also recognize the importance of an affordable cost so most people can buy them, and that's a crucial issue that's rarely, if ever, discussed. People should be asking why."
The primary culprit is not the car. Automakers in the 1990s proved they could produce full-function electric vehicles offering the attributes that most drivers expect, although with limited driving range of about 100 miles or so. What they couldn't do was replace a gas tank with an advanced battery pack that cost less than $20,000 to $30,000. Today's electric Tesla Roadster battery cost is about the same. Extraordinarily high battery cost is why we're seeing newly-announced battery electric sedans with a retail cost of $45,000 to $55,000.
Will buyers pay $15,000 to $25,000 more for a vehicle that runs solely on batteries compared to a similar gasoline or clean diesel model? Not in mass market numbers, says Cogan, which is why electric cars should be considered potential mid- to long-term volume vehicles rather than a sure short-term solution as battery costs are being sorted out. Higher fuel economy gasoline, clean diesel, and hybrid vehicles of varying types will comprise the majority of the U.S. market's estimated 11 million annual vehicle sales for years even as battery electric cars come to new car showrooms in increasing numbers.
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Recognized as the auto enthusiast magazine of today with a focus on automobiles, energy, and the environment, Green Car Journal has achieved critical acclaim with a Folio: Eddie Award and 16 International Automotive Media Awards since its launch in January 1992. A sample issue can be viewed at www.GCJUSA.com, where subscriptions and back issues of the magazine can also be ordered.
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MEDIA CONTACT: For further information or interviews of Ron Cogan call 805-541-0473 ext 1.
Cars are $20,000 today. Where will it end?? We went from 3 years to 5 and 6 years of payments...They’ll push it to 10 soon....which fits that 10 year warranty nicely!!
All switching to electric cars does is move the emissions from the tailpipe to the power plant chimney.
Oh, and it will probably bring rolling blackouts, since the Libiots won’t let us build power plants.
The inmates are running the asylum.
Rest In Peace, old friend, your work is finished.....
If you want ON or OFF the DIESEL ”KnOcK” LIST just FReepmail me.....
This is a fairly HIGH VOLUME ping list on some days.....
(From a Senior Level Chrysler person)
Monday morning I attended a breakfast meeting where the speaker and
guest was David E. Cole, Chairman Center for Automotive Research (CAR
and Professor at the University of Michigan) . You have all likely
heard CAR quoted, or referred to in the auto industry news lately.
Mr. Cole, who is an engineer by training, told many stories of the
difficulty of working with the folks that the Obama administration has
sent to save the auto industry. There have been many meetings where
an experienced automotive expert has to listen to a newcomer to the
industry, someone with zero manufacturing experience, zero auto
industry experience, zero business experience, zero finance experience,
and zero engineering experience, tell them how to run their business.
Mr. Cole’s favorite story is as follows:
There was a team of Obama people speaking to Mr. Cole (Engineer,
automotive experience 40+ years, and Chairman of CAR). They were
explaining to Mr. Cole that the auto companies needed to make a car
that was electric and/or run on liquid natural gas (LNG) with enough
combined fuel to go 500 miles so we wouldn’t ‘need’ so many gas
stations. (A whole other topic). They were quoting BTU’s of LNG and
battery life that they had looked up on some Int
ernet website.
Mr. Cole explained that to do this you would need a trunk FULL of
batteries and a LNG tank at big as a car to make that happen and that
there were problems related to the laws of physics that prevented them
from...
The Obama person interrupted and said (and I am quoting here) “These
laws of physics? Who’s rules are those, we need to change that. (Some
of the others wrote down the name of the laws so they could google it
later.) We have the Congress and the Administration. We can repeal
that law, amend it, or use an executive order to get rid of that
problem. That’s why we are here, to fix these sort of issues.”
People are reporting 45+ mpg with the VW Jetta diesels. Thats over 550 miles per tank full.
Big difference between the Apollo program and an electric car is that the Apollo moon rocket had only one customer and its “drivers” were trained engineers and pilots. An electric car will have to meet the test of the market. Most consumers do not want a vehicle that costs $40,000, has a range of only 40 miles before needing a recharge and has no room for kids and soccer equipment. If electric rates are to at least double under cap and trade the cost of driving one despite its “green” advantages may well exceed even a gas guzzling SUV.
Is there a legitimate link to that Mr. Cole story somewhere, so this can be shared? If so I love it.
My own suspicion is that the electric car will always be more expensive, both in monetary cost and even environmental cost, than petroleum fueled vehicles. Ditto for hydrogen cars.
It isn’t like electric and hydrogen technologies haven’t been around for better than a hundred years, they really aren’t new technologies. And the chemistry is pretty well known for both too. Part of the cost problem is the need for relatively rare elements like lithium or platinum. But there are so many other potential costs to, for example disposal.
http://www.topgear.com/us/videos/more/electric-shocker/
If you have not seen it they drove the Tesla (Code name Toyota Prissy GS)
Might just be an email legend.
I got it from my [fellow] engineer brother.
Right, and as such I hesitate to repeat it for fear of looking like a stinking lib... or a greenie :)
Ron named the Jetta the GREEN CAR OF THE YEAR at the L.A. Auto Show.
Ron made some of the same points.
Though Mr Cole did have an encounter with Congresspersons who said they should write a new 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
Indeed. The cost of the raw materials is prohibitively expensive. Green Car Journal gave the Chevy Volt the GREEN VISION award at the DC Auto Show. The vehicle is expected to sell for about $39,000, which is not much more than the battery pack. It is currently a loser for GM, but they want to produce the technology.
I like the lower maintenance aspect of the design, but to get 300 Mile range is going to cost $$$...
They should give up on the big heavy battery idea. Instead embed the electric power lines in the roadbed and sell magnetic force, not electricity. In an electric motor, two parts move against each other. There's no reason one of those parts, the heaviest part, can't be fixed in the roadbed. Small batteries or fuel could be used for off grid driving. The basic hybrid idea is a stepping stone.
You triggered an idea...
Ceiling fan motors work with a rotating, or moving, pulsing electromagnet system.
They could imbed such a moving pulse system in a roadbed, and install the magnet in the vehicle. The vehicle could be a hybrid with the road providing an assist to the vehicle, using less fuel in the car...
of course, someone would get sued, or the enviros would go apesht over the “EMF pollution”...
Uh...$20,000 represents the LOW end of the price spectrum for a new car today.
If you want some sort of decent selection, you’re looking at at least $30,000...but your point about payment is correct and well taken.
just sayin.
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