Posted on 05/24/2009 12:42:08 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
As Nicole Marshall posed for photos on the eve of her commencement, someone joked, "Smile -- think of all the loans you took out for this!" She says she chose St. Michael's, a Catholic liberal arts college near Lake Champlain in Colchester, Vt., because it offered the biggest aid package, "but I'm still leaving with quite a bit of loans" -- about $20,000.
Her debt is a little lighter than the national average for graduates of private, four-year schools who borrow: nearly $23,800 as of 2007, according to the College Board in New York.
But if there's any time that students and parents can take such costs in stride, it's during the heady rush of commencement, when the campus is fragrant with fresh blossoms and abundant hope. For added inspiration to help them focus on the value of learning, these families heard a commencement speech from Secretary of Education Arne Duncan.
Standing head and shoulders above the others on stage, clad in academic regalia, the former basketball player and superintendent of Chicago's public schools acknowledged the costs:
"With those college loans to pay back, you're probably wondering, 'Just how much is a liberal arts education really worth?' Albert Einstein said the value of a liberal arts education is not to learn facts, but to train your mind to think about things that cannot be learned from textbooks. So now you're probably wondering why you spent all that money on textbooks. The point is not that the facts are useless; it's just that the facts alone don't make you educated. It's how you put those facts together and what you do with them that matters. The real value of a liberal arts education is that it teaches you ... how to analyze a situation and make a choice."
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Other than that, it's a ticket to nowhere but a treadmill to pay off your foolish loan while you sit and wonder why America is so "unfair".
It's too bad the degree has been pretty much watered down from something worthwhile to just another education scam to run schools and pay professors who suck your blood, time and treasure to advance socialism.
I think education in the classical sense has a value of pricelessness. Understanding our world's history, our country's history, knowing enough about the classics in literature and art, keeping up with science, being numerate and literate, and understanding economies and politics, is of utmost importance to making big decisions in life and making sense of current events.
However, today's 4-year-sojourn at a university is not necessarily all it's cracked up to be. As conservatives, we don't wish to scrimp and save $120,000 so that Junior can hook up with babes, try new drugs, stay drunk until Tuesday each weekend, and sit mornings under the flying spittle of professors like William Ayers.
As long as Junior is spending these post high-school-years learning how to do something that will help him (or her) be independent and strong financially (which in some departments can be done at a college), he (or she) can learn all of the stuff that constitutes a good education from other sources (books, online, etc.).
Well, I applaud you. It seems like most of these people who are knocking your honest opinion here, and your great parenting skill, are like the “Poor Dad” in the “Rich Dad Poor Dad” book. There is nothing wrong with college, either for learning for its own sake, or for preparing for a serious career that needs it. But we need to take a step back and not fall into expected paths just to get a star on our sons’ bellies like Dr. Seuss’s Sneetches.
Lessee, $80,000 to turn your child into a communist, collectivist, nanny-statist that thinks you’re an imbecile, a bourgeoise oppressor of the downtrodden proletariat, and a world class polluter,.
Sounds like a bargain to me.
/sarc
The money would be far better spent investing in gold, or oil, or starting a business, or as a large down payment on a real house.
“You are missing the point. We don’t teach our children to avoid college, we teach them to learn skills so they won’t NEED college to make a buck.”
So let me clarify, then: do you see any purpose at all to education besides “making a buck”?
“As conservatives, we don’t wish to scrimp and save $120,000 so that Junior can hook up with babes, try new drugs, stay drunk until Tuesday each weekend, and sit mornings under the flying spittle of professors like William Ayers.”
And I can appreciate that. But I’ve also taught a lot of high school and college students, and the ones who will actually put in the work to learn independently are few and far between. Actually I’d like to see more trade and professional colleges be feasible options on the job market, such that those who do care about a liberal arts education (”liberal” here being used in the same sense as in “classical liberal”) can do so. Many students shortchange their own education in the humanities, I’ve found, because they just see it as another hoop to jump through.
Respectfully disagree, but only if the student earns a liberal arts degree from an institution like Hillsdale College, where they teach the young person to think critically and learn the writings of the masters like Aristotle and Plato.
If however you're talking about most of the dreck that passes for higher education, I'm with you 100%.
>> Respectfully disagree, but only if the student earns a liberal arts degree from an institution like Hillsdale College, where they teach the young person to think critically and learn the writings of the masters like Aristotle and Plato.
If however you’re talking about most of the dreck that passes for higher education, I’m with you 100%.<<
I afraid when businesses these days look at your resume, they look at how your major applies to what they are hiring for. Being eloquent and able to use your mind (I HATE the term “critical thinking” since it usually is liberalese for “anyone who agrees with me”) is helpful, but only after your resume is selected.
I would add Bryan College in TN to that list. Our son is getting an English (ack!) degree there.
>>Our son is getting an English (ack!) degree there.
He will need it to properly articulate and diagram “do you want fries with that?”
Then they can do what I did, start at the bottom like me, earning $9,500 a year paying claims - and that was back before the age of online processing. I exploited work benefits to take training classes, worked my way up the ranks, then went to school at night to earn my MBA. I wouldn't trade my liberal arts degree for anything; fortunately I earned it from a school that wasn't interested in indoctrination.
>>Then they can do what I did, start at the bottom like me, earning $9,500 a year paying claims - and that was back before the age of online processing. I exploited work benefits to take training classes, worked my way up the ranks, then went to school at night to earn my MBA. I wouldn’t trade my liberal arts degree for anything; fortunately I earned it from a school that wasn’t interested in indoctrination.<<
The job market of today is not like the job market of yesteryear. A liberal arts degree gets you 2nd shift at the 7-11 — after a while you might make manager.
Not true. My nephew got his liberal arts degree two years ago from Hillsdale College and is now making $55K a year as an administrative assistant.
>>Not true. My nephew got his liberal arts degree two years ago from Hillsdale College and is now making $55K a year as an administrative assistant.<<
With your liberal arts degree, you of all people should know an anecdote is not the same as a trend.
Mine was a “rounded” education with a Business major from Pepperdine, also a liberal arts school. I never directly used my Business degree since I got into IT while still in college. But I agree that my liberal arts degree has been extremely helpful throughout my career — especially now that applications development is a trade and not a skill.
But I would never recommend that any of today’s kids follow that route.
It has been a while since I taught the children diagramming. Does the prepositional phrase “with that” go under “fries” or is in an adverbial phrase and goes under “do want?”
>>It has been a while since I taught the children diagramming. Does the prepositional phrase “with that” go under “fries” or is in an adverbial phrase and goes under “do want?”<<
Well, it wasn’t a proper sentence. The proper sentence would be: “Would you like to order fries along with your hamburger?” (I think).
But I couldn’t diagram it with a gun to my head :)
Perhaps not...with his grades (4.0 at a top tier school with a plus/minus grading system), work ethic, and personality, I expect he will do well in life. People who are smart and motivated don't usually end up at McDonalds. My parents would not have considered paying for college if I majored in some sort of liberal arts, but I found as I settled into a career many years ago I would have been better served with a psychology degree than the science oriented degree my parents approved of. Fortunately, you can change directions with a master's degree...
Well, it wasn’t a proper sentence. The proper sentence would be: “Would you like to order fries along with your hamburger?” (I think).
No it is a full sentence with a subject and a predicate. I just cannot remember where the phrase “with that” goes.
With the burger? ;)
With the burger? ;)
...and the fries.
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