Posted on 05/06/2009 11:57:23 AM PDT by Turret Gunner A20
... and this time it's none other than Dave Ramsey. The FairTax is a bold proposal. It is only natural that people are going to try to criticize it. Is it too much to ask for these people to do at least a modicum of research so that they at least appear to know what they're talking about?
This time the culprit is Dave Ramsey. I like the guy, and I like his approach. His sermons on living debt free are right on, and no doubt he's helped millions of people to improve their financial. OK .. mighty fine. But now he's taken it upon himself to opine that the FairTax simply isn't, in his words, "fair."
Let's take this quote from Ramsey's article: "People would only pay taxes on items they buy, except for food, basic clothing and other kinds of necessities." Most of the FairTax supporters know that this is just flat-out wrong. The explanation is incomplete.
If Ramsey really was informed on the FairTax he would know that you pay taxes only on items that you buy at the retail level, and that food, basic clothing and other kinds of necessities are included. Ramsey would also know about the prebate. He would know that every household in this country --- that is, every legal household --- would get a credit or check from the Treasury Department every single month equal to the FairTax they would be expected to pay on the basic necessities of life during the following month. This FairTax prebate is so essential to the FairTax plan that to ignore it, or to be unaware of it entirely, is worse than careless.
Ramsey also writes of the FairTax "This means it's more of a burden on poor people, because they would pay a higher percentage of their overall income."
Sorry, wrong. The poor, poor pitiful poor would pay virtually nothing - zero percent of their income - to the federal government. [ALERT! Brilliant thought follows!] To pay any taxes at all to the feds the poor would have to spend above the poverty level. If they're doing that ... they're not poor. Pretty easy, isn't it?
I wonder why Dave Ramsey doesn't get it? Is there a chance he just shot from the hip here without doing any real research? The FairTax deserves better than this flippant, uninformed treatment.
Dave Ramsey could be a good proponent of the FairTax. He's very bright, and he would recognize the beauty of this plan if he just would take the time to actually study it. Knowing what you're talking about .... Is that too much to ask?
Weird, this audio clip on YouTube seems to show Ramsey supporting the FairTax. Huh. Maybe he's lost changed his mind since that was recorded.
Yes. This is because the single guy has less necessities. It is necessity level spending that is untaxed [analogous to today's standard deduction.] The family, however, has more necessities so they have more untaxed [analogous to dependent deductions.]
This tax money goes to community services, no?
No. This tax money goes to the federal government.
The rebate thing is the mechanism for untaxing necessity level spending [some call it poverty level spending.] Its function is to prevent anyone from having to pay taxes on things they must have to live. Any legal resident of the US with a valid SSN may choose to receive the rebate, thus reducing their overall tax burden.
Hope this helps.
Wow, that sounds like "Change We Need," Keep your change!
I wasn’t even going to grace that drivel with a reply. Just more evidence of the FT ‘cult’ -
The FT is a warm milk pacifier for people who would otherwise be beating each other to death with farm tools.
Hewitt has had as a sponsor for ten years on his radio show the "Mortgage Minute Guy", and has always been a defender of the mortgage deduction for that reason.
I don't know why Dave Ramsey is down on it: I am for something other than the current privacy-invading IRS and the thousand+ page Tax Code.
That's the Cure, alright!
Last question, please...
“This tax money goes to community services, no?
No. This tax money goes to the federal government. “
what does the federal gov do with the $$$ and where do the states get $$$ for roads, schools, etc?
thanks
:)
Schools are paid for with local and state funds.
Some roads are county. Some are city, some are US highways.
Spending caps, balanced budget measures, deficit-reduction plans or any other legislated limit to control the funds Congress spends, have been tried in the past and did not work. Congress will always vote to exceed the limit at its discretion for the latest cause du jour.
The FairTax will bring taxation into the clear light of day where the funds can be more sanely throttled in from the source. Going forward from implementation, the FairTax would immediately expose any attempt by Congress to increase our tax burden and provide leverage for accountability.
Absolutely! The FairTax prebate would be another clusterf*ck like the EITC. It would be totally ripe for fraud and abuse.
Also, the FairTax supporters go on and on about “revenue neutrality...” I don’t want revenue neutrality! The government gets too damned much money right now—why would we want to revamp the tax code and perpetuate that?
Direct your post to yourself.
“Anyone educated in finance knows the FairTax is a joke.”
You have contributed ZERO to these discussions.
And of all the FairTax bashers and hecklers you have got to be the one with the biggest *ss and that’s a fact.
That is one of the things I like about the Fair Tax. But the main thing I love is no more reporting to the IRS.
True, but that is the only way to make sure the poor people pay no taxes. Lots of people that are just twice at poverty level, will be paying half the taxes that the rich folk pay.
If you don't want the prebate, don't apply for it.
Actually a law could exist now that would print on every receipt the estimated embedded federal taxes that make up the purchase price.
And embedded federal taxes are on average 20% of pricing.
Then ask if people would tolerate a 23% inclusive tax and wipe out the 20% embedded inclusive tax.
People when they get hold of that choice scream SIGN ME UP, SIGN ME UP NOW?
And what’s the extra 3% for?
To rebate everyone so that the FairTax is progressive and not regressive, in other words untax the poor (like grandparents on Social Security).
..Which only means I hit closest to the truth every time, exposing your pet red herring, and pushing back the frontiers of ignorance.
it is pretty much a forgone conclusion that the fair tax bill is the “flag burning amendment” with zero chance of passing.
Your used car style over the years in our back and forth over the fair scam have born it out over the year.
Since you can’t argue the welfare check and mandatory registration intrusions of the bill ANYONE CAN READ on http://www.thomas.gov you then attack the messenger? That is more appropriate for the DUmies rather than the best conservative site on the web.
“Sorry, but that dialog and motivation are just as possible today without exchanging one bad system for another.”
Not when half the electorate is under the illusion that they pay no federal tax. In addition, today’s dialogue doesn’t seem to be very successfully moving the conversation to reduce spending.
“I’ve listened to dave for a couple of years now, never once heard him mention it in a positive way.”
Did you listen to yesterday’s show?
http://www.daveramsey.com/tdrs/#
At the beginning of the 2nd hour, he addresses this specific rant by Neal. Specifically, he admits that he mispoke and confirms that he is very supportive of the fair tax.
“Dave talks about how he’s been taken to task over his opinion over the fair tax. Then he has something to say about it.”
“So now you claim Ramsey is an “ardent supporter”? Which is it scam?”
Check out my post # 138 for a link to Dave clarifying is support for the FairTax.
Check out my post #138 for Dave’s clarification.
In addition, I agree with you that no one knows how much tax burden they actually carry. In fact, half the electorate thinks that they carry no federal tax burden....
Kind of sad really, but hey, these same folks know all about Idol and who was kicked out of the tribe!
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