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Universal Healthcare - is there anything we can do? (Vanity)

Posted on 04/30/2009 7:07:18 AM PDT by wingsof liberty

Anyone else out there scared? Democratic leaders are threatening to impose the use of reconciliation - a simple majority vote - to defeat a GOP filibuster on The Ones Universal Healthcare package. No negotiation, of course. They will say its my way or the highway. The GOP is threatening "all out war" if the Rats try to pull this, but honestly I dont think the Dims are too scared. We know what a single payer healthcare system like Obama is proposing would mean. All we have to do is look to Canada & Britain: -A flood of millions of new patients, including illegal aliens, creating a chronic caregiver shortage -Long waits to see specialists, resulting in deaths -Specialists quitting their professions because they will be paid the same as regular physicians, -Patients denied treatments their doctors recommend because government beaurocrats say no, and the list goes on. So is there anything we can do to stop this disaster from happening? I have written my lawmakers on this, but considering I live in MA have already been labeled a "threat to national security" by DHS for doing so. How can we willfully impose a system that we know will be disaster based on other existing examples? Oh, were being turned into a Socialist state that also doesnt work - never mind. The GOP needs to be out in force educating the public on what this would mean for every American - so far I dont see it happening. Chairman Steele? Mr. Chairman......?


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To: the OlLine Rebel

Was the USSR economy ever as large or as fundamental to the global economy as ours?

Did the USSR ever project global military power in the way the US does and must?

Etc.


21 posted on 04/30/2009 7:25:06 AM PDT by fightinJAG (Good riddance, UAW.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Since this will be socialism on the largest scale ever tried”

How is it bigger than the USSR?


I don’t believe the socialists reallocated 20% of their economy, the MOST PROFITABLE 20%,moving it from private sector to government control.

—If you look at our macro economy, the government control is staggering—media, banking, finance, mortgage, automotive, health-care.

Seems to me that with the exception of the agriculture sector and a pervasive domestic military presence (thanks to Constitution and posse comitatus), we are going to look a lot like the USSR.


22 posted on 04/30/2009 7:25:39 AM PDT by Freedom56v2 (Wonder if our founding fathers would even recognize the USA?!)
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To: fightinJAG

What’s a real Marxist? A guy who knows it and proudly calls himself so? Or just someone who does all that a Marxist should? The latter is good enough.

A rose by any other name is still a rose, and a skunk is still a skunk by any other name.


23 posted on 04/30/2009 7:25:59 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: wingsof liberty
I don't know what we can do honestly. No one teaches that socialism and communism are bad thing anymore, so if you tell the younger people that "this is socialism" or "this is communism" you don't get the type of visceral negative reaction that you'd get out of normal people.

Couple that with over half the voting majority of people in this country either paying no taxes or being on some kind of government assistance and we can see that the math just isn't on our side.

24 posted on 04/30/2009 7:26:23 AM PDT by pnh102 (Save America - Ban Ethanol Now!)
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To: fightinJAG

I understand, but in terms of people and area, probably not. And that’s the crux of how unmanageable communism is. It works for families (several people), but not for whole nations (gazillions).


25 posted on 04/30/2009 7:28:24 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Red Badger
We can flush the Congressional dems and leave The Zero without a powerful ally as we did to the Klintoons in 1994........................

Except that the GOP has a proven record of being only marginally less socialist than the Democrat party. Back in 1994 no one remembered what it was like the last time there was a GOP congress and I believe that was one of the contributing factors to it winning then.

26 posted on 04/30/2009 7:28:29 AM PDT by pnh102 (Save America - Ban Ethanol Now!)
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To: wingsof liberty

As a Christian, an American and a conservative I’m confused these days.
My faith tells me that no man is in a position of power unless the Almighty allows it.

So, is opposing this administration going against the will of God?

But, on the other hand...we are admonished to ‘render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and render unto God what is God’s’-I consider my life and my children the utmost gift from God and belong to Him, so just how much of our lives do we give over to the government?
This is not meant to be a smartypants post...I really do wrestle with these issues, daily now it would seem. : (


27 posted on 04/30/2009 7:28:47 AM PDT by ozark hilljilly (This tagline left intentionally blank.)
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To: wingsof liberty

Yes, there is something we can do, but it will not be easy: http://pushbackuntil.com. But what choice do we have? If we, the people, do not step up and make a lot of noise for the next 5-10 years, this and future Congresses will continue to destroy this country.


28 posted on 04/30/2009 7:28:58 AM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: wingsof liberty

Glenn Beck had a lady on last night talking about this. She’s a naturalized citizen from Canada and talked about how people from other countries come here for the best medical care (i.e. Berlusconi, etc.) and that, if we go to universal care, there will be no place left to get good medical help. We are the last place on earth.


29 posted on 04/30/2009 7:29:23 AM PDT by manic4organic (We Are S0 Screwed)
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To: the OlLine Rebel; fightinJAG

The USSR socialist experiment involved a large number of people and large geographic area, but in terms of the size of the economy, it wasn’t even in the ballpark of the US.


30 posted on 04/30/2009 7:29:48 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Grumpybutt

I think all we can do is what you are already doing - contact your state legilators, talk to friends, etc. and hope and pray that come 2010 there are more of us than there are of “them” and we can vote the idiots out of office.

It’s IS a very scary thing to think about - especially for people who are not well - or who have diseases that must be managed ie: diabetes, ms, lupus, cancer, arthritis, etc.

I shudder to think what will happen to me if, in the middle of a “mad muscles” flare, I can’t get in to get a shot.


The elitists truly don’t care—the fly-by in New York on Monday morning shows the lack of empathy.

Even with the Swine Mexiflu (note how I am not succumbing to calling it H1N1), note how the occupant administration is saying no need to close the borders, yet Biden is saying he would not let his family fly. Where is the truth? Do you trust them to protect you? Anyone who thinks they are regetting truth and transparency or caring from this administration needs to seek psychiatric health care imho!


31 posted on 04/30/2009 7:31:01 AM PDT by Freedom56v2 (Wonder if our founding fathers would even recognize the USA?!)
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To: ozark hilljilly
So, is opposing this administration going against the will of God?

NO! And don't ever think that of ANY administration that pushes any policy that goes against your faith!

God didn't sanction Obama, it was a majority of idiot clueless morons in this country who did that.

32 posted on 04/30/2009 7:31:48 AM PDT by pnh102 (Save America - Ban Ethanol Now!)
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To: bushwon

Where is the truth? Do you trust them to protect you? Anyone who thinks they are regetting truth and transparency or caring from this administration needs to seek psychiatric health care imho!


oops regetting = really getting


33 posted on 04/30/2009 7:33:44 AM PDT by Freedom56v2 (Wonder if our founding fathers would even recognize the USA?!)
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To: manic4organic

I don’t seem to be able to find Beck locally in Chicago market. Wish I did. Glad he is addressing this. It is huge.


34 posted on 04/30/2009 7:34:56 AM PDT by Freedom56v2 (Wonder if our founding fathers would even recognize the USA?!)
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To: ozark hilljilly

I’ve had a religious person argue that our Revolution was sin against God, because we should’ve allowed the King to remain in power because God made it that way.

(She wasn’t liberal, just worried that we were anti-God.)

I posited that all in the world have deposed rulers and so all of us have sinned against him as nations or rulers. Those English kings had so many fights to depose each other we don’t have a clue if George III was on “the original right side”.

If God allows a simple vote to put in His will, does he not also allow a bloody revolution to do so?


35 posted on 04/30/2009 7:35:34 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: pnh102

He may not have sanctioned Obama, but He allowed it to be, via clueless voters.

Maybe this is His version of a Babylonian captivity for us?
(I know that’s over the top, but it readily comes to mind.)


36 posted on 04/30/2009 7:35:35 AM PDT by ozark hilljilly (This tagline left intentionally blank.)
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To: wingsof liberty

Sadly NO there is nothing that can be done until 2010 election cycle. The democrats have a majority and once Stuart Smally arrives in Washington they are even Fillibuster proof. First thing is the GOP needs to rid itself of RINO’s Like McCain. Stop trying to be Bi-Partisan and going along with dem’s. Use the only thing we have left the public opinion. VOTE. Get your friends and family to the polls. Talk to people about issues.


37 posted on 04/30/2009 7:35:35 AM PDT by jakerobins
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To: wingsof liberty
You mean there are two if us in MA !! I qualify completely as a DHS certified domestic threat.

We need to launch an amnesty type phone line meltdown when this is debated in Congress. This is actually an issue where plenty of democrats will be on our side since they are aware of the disaster in Canada and Britain and unlike taxes (which only 50% pay) this impacts every single person. Here is the approach I use when discussing this: everyone wants the lowest price, best quality and best service for every product / service we buy and it is impossible to have all three. In health care which of those are you willing to give up and any rational person will say “price”. I then say if you make it universal that will increase demand with the supply of care being static then both service and quality will go down and if you cap doctor's incomes then quality goes down further. Then I top it off with when was the last time you had to go in for any specialist appointment or even an MRI ? In Canada it would take you 5 times as long and in Britain they may deny it because your life is not worth saving. Unless they are an unhinged Obamabot this at least gets them thinking internally and the wheels are set in motion.

38 posted on 04/30/2009 7:36:05 AM PDT by Maneesh
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To: ozark hilljilly

It’s possible for God to allow some bad person to teach a lesson, you know. Not so much because He thinks he is good.


39 posted on 04/30/2009 7:38:04 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Maneesh

“DHS certified domestic threat.”

Is there a t-shirt for that?


40 posted on 04/30/2009 7:39:12 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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