Posted on 04/28/2009 6:25:43 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Creationism, science and peer review
Andrew S. Kulikovsky
--snip--
Proponents of young-earth creationism are not the only scientists who have experienced this kind of discrimination. Scientists that reject the commonly asserted ‘consensus’ view of climate change (that the earth is abnormally warming as a result of human-caused carbon emissions) are routinely derided in the popular media as ‘pseudoscientists’, ‘heretics’, ‘on the payroll of the big multinationals’ or as having the moral credit of a holocaust denier. In fact, these modern ideological disagreements and debates mirror many scientific debates that have occurred throughout history.[3]
What value, then, is peer review? How does it work? Why do creationist scientists generally not submit their work to peer review by scientists who do not accept scientific creationism? ...
(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...
Sorry, last post was meant to link to a different paper, but I accidentally linked to this one. I asked the mods to pull the last one down, but for some reason it is still up. I figured that if I’m going to link to a paper, it may as well be titled appropriately. So here’s the link again, but with the correct title this time.
All the best—GGG
>>Proponents of young-earth creationism are not the only scientists who have experienced this kind of discrimination.
Sorry friend. You have to be a scientist to be a scientist who experiences discrimination. Calling “creation science” a science” is like calling astrology “alternative astronomy.”
But have a blessed day/evening and please continue to enjoy your struggle.
Let’s see, you actually believe Darwood’s fanciful creation myth and yet you stare down your nose at biblical creation...you’re funny!
God’s Peer Review of man’s science:
3Gird your loins like a stouthearted man;
I will ask and you will answer.
4Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Answer me that if you have your wits.
5Who determined its measure, if you know,
And who stretched out the builder’s line?
6Wherein are its pillars sunk
And who laid the cornerstone
7When the morning stars sang together
And all the angels shouted for joy?
8Who shut the sea behind double doors
When it burst from the womb,
9When I wrapped it in mist
And swaddled it with thick clouds,
10When I broke out its limit
And set the bar to its gate, saying,
11”This far you may come and no further;
Here your proud waves shall halt”?
12Have you roused the morning in your day
And assigned the dawn its place,
13That it might catch the skirt of the earth
And shake the wicked from it?
14Then the land is changed as clay under the seal
Or like a garment that is dyed.
15But the wicked are robbed of their light;
The Arm on high is shivered in the dogstar night.
16Have you come to the springs of the sea
Or walked in the caverns of the deep?
17Have the Gates of Death been revealed to you?
Have you seen the Guards of Darkness?
18Have you surveyed the breadth of the earth?
Tell me if you know all these things.
19What path leads to the abode of light
And where does darkness dwell
20That you might lead it to its outer bounds
And show it the way home again?
21Surely you know, for you were born then
And the number of your days is great!
22Have you been to the storehouses of snow
Or seen the hail treasured up,
23Reserved against the time of trouble,
The day of battle and war?
24How are the upper waters dispersed,
The fresh water spread upon the earth?
25Who cut a sluice for the heavy rains,
A channel for the thundershower,
26To bring rain to an uninhabited land,
To the desert where no man lives,
27To satisfy the desolate waste
And make the grass grow on the thirsty ground?
28Has the rain a father
And who begets the dew?
29From whose womb comes the ice
And who is mother to the hoarfrost of heaven
30When the waters harden like stone
And the face of the deep freezes?
31Can you narrow the bounds of the Pleiades
Or loose the bands of the Fool?
32Can you bring forth the Mazzaroth in its season
Or guide the Bear with her Cubs?
33Do you know the laws of heaven?
Or can you establish heaven’s rule on earth —
34Can you send up your voice to the clouds
That rushing floods might cover you?
35Can you order the bolts of lightning forth
And they answer: “Here we are”?
36Who gave wisdom to the feelings,
Understanding to the mind?
37Who has the skill to mass the clouds
And tilt the bottles of the sky
38When the soil cakes
And the clods cling together?
39Do you hunt for the lioness
And feed her hungry cubs,
40That are settled in their den
Or waiting quietly in some thicket?
41Who provides the raven’s prey
When its fledglings cry to God
And wander far because there is no food?
39:1Do you know when the mountain goats give birth
Or do you watch over the calving of the doe?
2Do you count the months that they fulfill
And mark the season they bring forth
3When they crouch to bear their young
And have their labor done?
4In the open fields their offspring thrive and grow;
Soon they leave their mother’s side, never to return.
5Who set the zebra free?
Who loosed the wild ass from his bonds,
6Whose home I made the wilderness,
The salt plains his habitat?
7He laughs at the city throngs;
He hears no driver’s shout.
8He roams the hills for pasture,
Searching out the greenery.
9Will the wild ox be your beast?
Can your manger keep him?
10Will you lead him down the furrows by a rope?
Will he follow with the harrow down the row?
11Will you rely on his great strength
And trust the profit of your labor to him,
12Confident he will come home,
Hauling the grain of your threshing floor?
13Would that screeching bird rejoice for a wing
Pinioned like the sheltering wing of the stork,
14The ostrich, who lays her eggs on the ground,
Letting them warm in the dust,
15Forgetting that a foot may crush them
Or a wild beast trample them?
16She is cruel to her young, as if they were not hers,
Caring little if her labor is in vain,
17For God deprived her of wisdom,
Gave her no share of understanding,
18But when up she spreads her plumes,
She laughs at horse and rider!
19Is it you that gives the horse his might,
Adorns his neck with a windsnapped mane,
20Makes him quiver like a bed of locusts,
His awful snorts a terror?
21He stamps the ground and mightily exults;
He charges into battle.
22He laughs at fear and is not afraid;
He does not shy from the sword.
23The arrows whistle by,
The flashing spear and the lance.
24He swallows the land with his fierce pounding stride
And will not believe the trumpet’s recall.
25When the trumpet sounds, he cries “He’aah!”
Scenting the battle from afar,
The roar of the captains and the shouting.
26Does the hawk mount up by some wisdom of yours
And stretch her wings to the strong south wind?
27Is it at your command the vulture soars
And makes her nest on high,
28Dwelling on the rock,
Lodging upon the fastness of the crag?
29Thence she spies her prey;
Her eyes can see from afar.
30Her young ones drink blood
And where the slain are, there is she.
40:1Then the Lord said to Job:
2Will the one contending with the Almighty yield?
Or let him answer, the one who accuses God!
3And Job answered the Lord, saying:
4How little I am! What shall I answer thee?
I lay my hand upon my mouth.
5I have spoken once and will not reply;
Twice, but I will say no more.
6Then the Lord answered Job from the storm, saying:
7Gird your loins like a stouthearted man;
I will ask and you will answer.
8Will you reduce my justice to nought,
Make me wrong that you may be right?
9Have you an arm like God
Or can you thunder with a voice like his?
10Then assume your dignity and state.
Array yourself in majesty and splendor.
11Let loose your transports of anger.
(Bring low every proud man with a look.)
12Humble every proud man with a look
And demolish the wicked where they stand.
13Bury them all in the dust together;
Bind their faces in the crypt.
14Then I myself will give thanks
that your own right hand can save you.
15Consider Behemoth, beast of beasts,
Which I created with you;
Grass he eats like an ox.
16See the strength he has in his loins,
The power in the muscles of his belly!
17His tail is arched like a cedar;
The sinews of his thighs are closely knit.
18His bones are pipes of brass;
His ribs like iron bars.
19He was first of the ways of God,
Made to be lord of his fellows.
20The creatures of the hills are at ease with him
And the beasts of the grassland play there.
21He lies beneath the lotus thorns,
Hidden by reed and fen.
22The lotus gives him shade;
The wadi willows stand on every side.
23Though the river rage, yet he is calm,
Though the Jordan surge against his mouth.
24Who can take him by the eyes
Or pierce his nose with a peg?
41:1Can you fish out Leviathan with a hook
Or fasten his tongue with a cord?
2Can you put a ring through his nose
Or pierce his jaw with a gaff?
3Will he pray to you for mercy
And coax you with gentle words,
4Bargain with you
To be your slave forever,
5That you may sport with him as with a bird
Like a sparrow on a leash?
6Will the tradesmen put a price on him
And divide him among the merchants?
7Will you prepare his hide with spice
And serve his head with onions?
8Lay your hand upon him;
A fight you won’t forget, that’s all you’ll get!
9The hope of taking him is vain.
The very look of him would dismay him.
10Is he not fierce that he should rouse him?
But who is he to stand before me?
11Who could confront me and come out whole,
Under all of heaven, who?
12Was it not I who silenced his empty boast,
His proud talk and his arrogant charm?
13Who can describe the look of his garb
And who can penetrate his double defense,
14Force the doors of his face
Where lies the terror of his teeth,
15Or breach the shields in dorsal rows,
Sealed with adamant,
16One so near the next
No air can pass between,
17Joined to one another,
Interlocked forever?
18He snorts and lightning flashes forth;
His eyes are like the early dawn.
19From his mouth come firebrands,
Fiery sparks escaping.
20His nostrils smoke
Like a hot furnace on a reed fire.
21His spirit sets the coals ablaze
and the flame issues from his mouth.
22In his neck dwells strength
And weakness runs before him.
23The dewlaps of his flesh are tightly knit,
Firmly cast upon him with no motion of their own.
24His heart is hard as rock,
Solid as the nether millstone.
25The gods are terrified at his appearance;
They lose their self-control.
26Useless is the sword of his attacker,
The spear, the dart and the lance.
27Iron he counts for straw,
Brass for rotten wood.
28Arrows cannot make him flee;
Slingstones turn to chaff when used against him.
29Clubs he counts for stubble
And he laughs at the javelin’s whirr.
30His underside is sharp as shards;
Like a threshing machine he drags the mire.
31He makes the depths boil like a caldron;
He churns the sea like an unguent pot.
32He leaves a shining wake
That makes the deep seem hoary.
33His match will not be found on earth,
A creature born intrepid.
34He looks down on all high things;
He is king of all proud beasts.
>>Let’s see, you actually believe Darwood’s fanciful creation myth and yet you stare down your nose at biblical creation...you’re funny!
No, I just know the Scientific Method and Evolution fits it and Creationism doesn’t. If we used “Creation Science” in, say, physics, we would not be having this conversation because there would be no electricity and no computers.
You don’t get to define science to meet your desired end result.
Really, you don’t.
Is that they just cut down Darwood’s predicted “tree of life” and replaced it with an “orchard” or “forest of life”...just as creation scientists have been predicting all along?
>>Is that they just cut down Darwood’s predicted “tree of life” and replaced it with an “orchard” or “forest of life”...just as creation scientists have been predicting all along?
As more information becomes available, the TToE gets even more strongly upheld.
Your attempt to use scientific clarity (and incorporation into the theories) as some sort of savior of Creationism as a science just doesn’t get it done. As long as “Creation Science” includes “Creation” it can’t be science. And no amount of verbal smoke and mirrors will change that.
As I said, it is the same as saying astrology is the basis for astronomy and that if astronomy misjudges the properties of a black hole that somehow rehabilitates astrology when the more accurate properties are determined.
It is a non sequitur.
Hey — we can do this respectfully. :)
Not to nitpick, but if Creationism is true then why did God create a fossil record, a geological record and a DNA record that all point to Evolution?
Just askin’...
They say it is to test us - that if we truly believe that we will ignore the evidence of our own eyes.
...let alone, understand it!
PS If you would like to learn more, you might want to visit www.icr.org, or www.creation.com...and then there is one of my favorites, www.detectingdesign.com.
“Is that they just cut down Darwood’s predicted “tree of life” and replaced it with an “orchard” or “forest of life”...just as creation scientists have been predicting all along?”
Come up with some new lines. These ones are stale.
The truth never goes stale, especially when there are so many lying about it.
>>Darwood’s fanciful creation myth is not science, nor has it ever been science.
Repeating an assertion does not change the fact it is an assertion.
>>As E. Mayr once said, Origins was nothing more than a long argument—an argument that has been discredited from just about every conceivable angle ever since, to include Darwood’s fanciful “tree of life.”
Quote mining! *tsk* *tsk* *tsk* I expect so much more from you. Myer’s expansion on Darwin’s work enhanced the TToE and did not undermine it at all!
Every aspect of every branch of every Earth Science which has upheld and enhanced TToE — I mean, how silly of millions of Anthropologists, Biologists, Geologists, Paleontologists and every single serious scientist for the last 200 years to follow a “discredited science.”
As I said, filling in some of the blanks has done nothing to discredit the underlying Theory, nor does it change the fact that TToE follows scientific principles and methodologies and Creationism does not.
Please, do not fall to these fell levels of debate. As I said, we can do this respectfully.
Now now, my FRiend.
I understand your frustration, but we do not use “stupid” or “dishonest” when discussing issues of understanding with our fellow Friends.
Instead, we use Socratic and Forensic methods to help our friends understand science and belief and why and how they differ.
Your lack of evidence reminds me of your mentor.
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