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Testing the Law or Exercising His Rights? Local Man Walks into Restaurant with Holstered Gun
fox8.com ^ | March 19, 2009 | Elisa Amigo

Posted on 03/19/2009 11:24:04 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar

Police say he was "testing" the law, but one local gunowner says he was exercising his right to bear arms.

Tuesday evening, witnesses called police after a man with a gun in a holster was spotted walking in the Taco Bell restaurant on Day Drive in Parma.

Although the Taco Bell restaurant did not have any signs prohibiting weapons from being on the property, customers grew nervous.

The gunowner, Bill Carlisle, says as soon as he walked out of the restaurant, he was surrounded by police. "I came, I ate my dinner, I walked out and there the police were. The first thing they asked me was to stay where I was and put my hands on my head," says Carlisle.

Parma police captain Robert De Simone says Carlisle pulled out a tape recorder and then complied with the officers orders.

"An officer would have to be a moron to go up and talk to someone without saying put your hands away from the weapon," says De Simone. After running a background check, Carlisle's gun was returned. He was not arrested or charged.

Unless there a signs prohibiting weapons from being allowed on the property, police say according to Ohio's "open carry" law, any law-abiding citizen is allowed to carry a loaded weapon in public as long as it's not concealed.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; freepthispoll; shallnotbeinfringed
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To: Jet Jaguar

This may stir up some debate, but I think this open carry testing is pushing the envelope a bit too far. I believe strongly in the 2nd Amendment, but there’s a balance to be struck here.

We don’t have the right to do whatever we please without limits. The free expression of our rights ends where that expression infringes on someone else’s rights.

Now if we allow folks to walk around in public openly carrying, we have to allow everyone. Even the folks that don’t look too savory. Image sitting down for dinner and seeing a gang-banger come in with his baggy pants down below his waist, hat on backward, tatoos, attitude, etc..., with a gun strapped on. Would it make you look twice? Would it make you or your wife or your kids feel uncomfortable or nervous? Your rights have just been infringed. The sight of a gun in public makes some people feel threatened. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, its just the way it is.

Let me put it another way. Most people don’t mind if you are a homosexual, but they don’t want to see you openly displaying your homosexuality in public. Don’t ask don’t tell. Its for the same reason that Texas has concealed carry but not open carry. We don’t mind if you’re packing, we just don’t want to know about it.

My concern is that this open carry “testing” is going to backfire.


61 posted on 03/20/2009 6:34:00 AM PDT by PBinTX
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To: familyop

If that’s property-owner policy, then tell him to leave. Calling the cops is only reasonable if, for whatever reason asked to, someone refuses to leave.


62 posted on 03/20/2009 6:50:58 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was pushed.)
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To: familyop
I've been told that's true, except when you're in your car on Texas highways. ...was recently told by a Texan that on the highways in Texas, firearms have to be zipped up in firearms cases and unloaded.

Not true.

In Texas, thanks to reworking of the law a couple of years ago, the presumption when in a vehicle is that the the weapon is legal unless you are specifically prohibted from posessing same.

63 posted on 03/20/2009 7:01:54 AM PDT by zeugma (Will it be nukes or aliens? Time will tell.)
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To: TexasRedeye
Absolutely incorrect info! A handgun or a long gun may be carried openly or concealed in a vehicle by anyone (who can legally own such firearm) anywhere not otherwise marked (in accordance with a strict labeling Texas law) as a "Gun Free" zone such as a mall parking lot. Such weapons can even be carried onto school parking lots legally. Vehicles are covered by "Castle Doctrine" law and no permit is required for carry in a vehicle or any domicile even if it is a hotel room. Of course, with a concealed carry permit, a weapon may be carried virtually anywhere (including churches) other than a gov't facility or an establishment that derives MORE than 50% of its income from the sale of alcohol and then it must be plainly posted by the establishment in large red letters at every entrance to the establishment. Something I've been thinking about recently... Does the same apply to motorcycles?
64 posted on 03/20/2009 7:05:03 AM PDT by zeugma (Will it be nukes or aliens? Time will tell.)
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To: zeugma
Something I've been thinking about recently... Does the same apply to motorcycles?

A qualified "yes". A handgun cannot be "openly displayed" on a motorcycle but can be carried without a license. A motorcycle is a "vehicle".

I actually asked that very same question at my last CHL training session.

65 posted on 03/20/2009 7:10:25 AM PDT by TexasRedeye (Eschew obfuscation)
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To: Robe
OK let me get this right....A store owner by putting up a sign nullifies my second amendment rights?

On HIS property? Yes.

66 posted on 03/20/2009 7:12:05 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: donmeaker
Unless you are traveling at through 3 counties, with the burden of proof on you.

That law part of the law was revised in 2007. Specifically, there is a "presumption of innocence" now.

67 posted on 03/20/2009 7:21:44 AM PDT by zeugma (Will it be nukes or aliens? Time will tell.)
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To: Jet Jaguar

Its going to take a while for the sheep to become accustomed to seeing a sheepdog.


68 posted on 03/20/2009 7:25:18 AM PDT by Hacklehead (Liberalism is the art of taking what works, breaking it, and then blaming conservatives.)
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To: grobdriver

“they changed the law so that we can carry in a vehicle in the open”

That’s not entirely correct. You are allowed to carry in your vehicle, but the handgun must be concealed. Here it is straight from the Texas Penal Code.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person’s own premises or premises under the person’s control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person’s control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person’s control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.


69 posted on 03/20/2009 7:33:44 AM PDT by rocket002
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To: Jet Jaguar

Police say he was “testing” the law, but one local gunowner says he was exercising his right to bear arms.


Both of which are legal.


70 posted on 03/20/2009 7:35:28 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Obamanomics="Trickle-up Poverty")
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To: TexasRedeye
I actually asked that very same question at my last CHL training session.

Excellent!

I'll print off a copy of the applicable laws, and keep them on the bike.

71 posted on 03/20/2009 8:10:37 AM PDT by zeugma (Will it be nukes or aliens? Time will tell.)
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To: zeugma

Good catch! Glad to learn something new and good.


72 posted on 03/20/2009 9:49:48 AM PDT by donmeaker (You may not be interested in War but War is interested in you.)
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To: Just another Joe

I think it would be interesting to put up a sign: “No weapons in the hands of Police”


73 posted on 03/20/2009 9:51:11 AM PDT by donmeaker (You may not be interested in War but War is interested in you.)
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To: familyop

Uh, no, they don’t.

We used to have a rather vague statute about travelling for pistols, but that’s gone now. You may carry any legal firearm in your vehicle in a loaded state. Longarms may be exposed or concealed as the owner wishes, pistols must be concealed. No permit needed inside your car.


74 posted on 03/20/2009 10:57:38 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: TexasRedeye

The definition of traveling is pretty clear, it means any where you go. What part isn’t right?


75 posted on 03/20/2009 10:58:15 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: MamaTexan

Hey, we’re working on it. Wasn’t that long ago that they didn’t acknowledge that we had the right to carry a pistol at all.


76 posted on 03/20/2009 11:04:28 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Dusty Road

That wasn’t what the definition of “travelling” when applied to the carriage of a pistol in a vehicle used to be. It used to be whatever the local DA wanted it to mean and would mean anything from the common-sense “anywhere you are going” to “must cross at least two county lines with an overnight stay and cannot be a commute.”

It could also be interpreted as the pistol becoming illegally stored in the car if you were at a stop light, stopping for fuel or food, parked for a bathroom break, etc., etc. It needed to be cleared up and was in 2007.


77 posted on 03/20/2009 11:07:32 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: familyop

Specifically - it is still legal to have your loaded longarm exposed in a pickup truck window rack. Never has been illegal here, IIRC.


78 posted on 03/20/2009 11:11:50 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Jet Jaguar; 2ndDivisionVet; A knight without armor; Alexander Rubin; all the best; AmericaUnite; ...
"An armed society is a polite society"
R.A.H.

FREEP THIS POLL ***PING!*** FRmail me if you want to be added or removed from the Fearless Poll-Freeping Freepers Ping list. And be sure to ping me to any polls that need Freepin', if I miss them. (looks like a medium volume list) (gordongekko909, founder of the pinglist, stays on the list until his ghost signs up for the list)

79 posted on 03/20/2009 11:14:44 AM PDT by dynachrome (Barack Hussein Obama yunikku khinaaziir)
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To: abb
Tech student wearing gun in Wal-Mart arrested

Good. Glad they arrested him.

I am entirely fine with him being arrested, prosecuted, fined or jailed.

From the article: He was asked to leave the gun in his vehicle because he was scaring customers, and when he refused, Ruston police arrested him on the loitering charge.

Once you are asked by the people who work in the store to remove yourself and/or your weapon, failing to do so is a crime.

The time and place to take it up with the property owner was not in the store, and not while armed. He was given an order to vacate and should have done so. The time to take it up with the store owners was later. He could have boycotted, written letters, protested, picketed. He chose to break the law.

Failing to respect the property owner's right gets no sympathy from me.

80 posted on 03/20/2009 11:15:53 AM PDT by mountainbunny
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