Contradictions: Underneath a Solid Sky (Does Genesis 1 teach the sky was solid?)

AiG ^ | March 9, 2009 | Gary Vaterlaus

[GodGunsGuts]

Critics of the Bible have often said that the writings of Genesis reflect an “unscientific view” of the universe—one that reflected the cosmology of the ancient world. One of these criticisms centers on the Hebrew word raqia used in the creation account of Genesis 1. Several Bible versions, such as the New King James, translate this word as firmament:

Genesis 1:6–8, NJKV
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. [Emphasis added.]

The argument from these Bible critics is that the ancient Hebrews believed in a solid dome with the stars embedded in the dome. They say that the word firmament reflects the idea of firmness, and this reflects erroneous cosmology. Therefore, the Bible is not the inspired Word of God, and we don’t need to listen to its teaching.

However, other versions of the Bible, such as the New American Standard, translate raqia as expanse:

Genesis 1:6–8, NASB
Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. [Emphasis added.]

But which is the correct term to use?...

[jimmyray]

I should have written:

There may be clear ice that has trapped air, but that is beyond my knowledge.

[jimmyray]

Is glass crystal clear?

Possibly, but water definitely may be, as mentioned in Revelation 22:1 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."

Hence the term, clear as crystal, or, crystal clear.

[DevNet]

Water, like glass, is only clear for a limited number of feet.

[jimmyray]

Water, like glass, is only clear for a limited number of feet.

As far as I know and my experience allows me to deduce, I agree. What I have no reference for, though, is how thick it would need to be.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Robert A Cook PE]

Looks like my old circular slide rule ...

8<)

[Kansas58]

I agree, it is amazing the chronology is so close.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Interesting interpretation. Thank you.

[Lexinom]

It’s a Sacks Spiral, starting in the middle, with the dark dots representing prime numbers.

[Kansas58]

God did NOT write the Bible.
Nobody with any real knowledge of Bible history says otherwise.
The Bible is inspired by God, but not written by God.

Also, to those who believe that ONLY the Bible can save your soul: For about 1,500 years after the Birth of Christ, the “Bible” in its present form did not exist, and very, very few Christians had ever come in contact with an actual Bible!

Also, hardly anything was written down, from the First Easter Sunday to at least 10 years after the Resurrection.

When people did begin to write down various books and letters and such, it was rare that one Priest would ever see more than a few different works, in his entire lifetime.

This was true for well over 1,000 years of the early Church history.

[Iscool]

What I’ve been trying to say is this: Time doesn’t affect God; God effects and affects time.

I don't disagree with that at all..However;

Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psa 119:129 Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them.
Psa 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

My point is although God is capable of doing anything He wants, He gave us His Book that me might understand what He is up to...Course we have to believe the book to understand it...He gave us the Book to prove what He says is so...

Sure, time may be constant, it may not...Makes no difference...

God made time and layed it out so we would learn to accept the idea that one day turns out to be a 24 hour period between one sunrise to the next, and God called it a day...So then when God says 'day', we understand what he means...

But then God gives us a hint about His method of timekeeping as well as a way to look into the future to see what He has in store for His creation...He says a 'day' is a thousand years...That, after we figured out how many days a thousand days are...

I see it this way: Although God lives outside of time, He recognizes time...We live, sleep and die by time...

God gave us time so we could have a benchmark to measure things by...When God references time in the Scriptures, He does it so we may know what He's talking about...

When God says day, and He taught us what a day is, we are to know that a day is a day...Until time time no longer exists for us...

[Iscool]

not only for the multiplication and distribution of the sacred volume among the faithful when as yet no printing press existed, but even for the preservation of the Book from corruption an destruction. It is, then, undoubtedly true to say that, in the present order of Providence, it is owing to the Roman Catholic Church that we have a Bible at all. And no one will be a bit the worse Christian and Bible-lover if he remembers this notable year that it is to the Mother Church of Christendom he must look if he would behold the real preserver, defender, and transmitter of the ‘Word that endureth forever.’ – Henry Grey Graham.

HaHaHa...Man, is God lucky...What would He have ever done without you guys...No bible...No Christianity...And all this time I was giving God the credit for my bible...

The Protestant theory, on the contrary, which stakes a man’s salvation on the possession of the Bible, leads to the most flagrant absurdities, imputes to Almighty God a total indifference to the salvation of the countless souls that passed hence to eternity for 1500 years, and indeed ends logically in the blasphemous conclusion that our Blessed Lord failed to provide an adequate means of conveying to men in every age the knowledge of His truth.

This is a very telling testimony of this former Protestant preacher...

This guy clearly was never a Christian as a Protestant and there's no reason to believe He is a Christian as a Catholic...

Protestant Christians do not stake their salvation on the ownership of a bible...Apparently this guy did...The man's a liar...

And you guys are foolish for believing him, about anything...

The fact is that no religion yet known has been effectually propagated among men except by word of mouth, and certainly everything in the natural and spiritual position o the Apostles on the one hand, and of the Jews on the other, was utterly unfavorable to the spread of Christianity by means of a written record.

The Jewish people were not used to it, and the Gentiles could not have understood it.

Is this guy nuts??? The Jews flocked to the synagogues to hear the WRITTEN words of God...

How many times did Jesus refer to the WRITTEN Scriptures...God instituted an entire tribe of people to be the scribes and overseers of the WRITTEN words of God...

The very Book you condemn, condemns your religion...But you have been hookwinked into not studying it to see the truth...

[Iscool]

Do you know what that much water falling through the air would do to the temperature of the planet?

Absolutely nothing, if God ordered it...

[Iscool]

“For liquid or ice particles to remain above the earth’s atmosphere, they must be in orbit.

The water is above the orbit...

[GourmetDan]

"I used to think, and still do, that it is a literal 24-hr day. But, I could be wrong. And, in fact, I don’t think that minutia really matters anymore. Who am I to tell God “it has to be 24/hr days!” Honestly, He could have made everything 24 seconds ago... or 24 million-million-million years ago... Who am I to say “No, it has to be literal!”?"

If God is unable to communicate clearly the days of creation, then what makes you think that the plan of salvation can be communicated clearly? Once you reject the plain reading of Scripture, anything goes (and does in some Christian circles). This all stems from first rejecting the plain teaching of Scripture and that is the big problem with your position.

"Do you remember the story of Elijah and the fiery chariot? Does it matter if it was a chariot made of fire? Or a super-bright rift in time-space? Or a Cadillac of light? Or a meteor? The point is that something super-natural took him off to be with God, still alive! That’s the exciting part!"

Yes it matters. Either God is able to communicate historical events or he is not. If you claim that he is not, you might as well be a Raelian and worship comets and the 'mother ship'.

"In the many parables that Jesus told, does it really matter if they were actually mapped into real life? IE Does it matter if there really was a “good Samaritan”? Or was that point merely to answer the question “Who is my neighbor?”?"

Again, yes it does. He used the Samaritan for a specific purpose. You need to learn that everything in Scripture is there for a purpose. That may help you with your double-mindedness. James 4:8.

Proverbs 25:2 - "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings."

[Kansas58]

“Is this guy nuts??? The Jews flocked to the synagogues to hear the WRITTEN words of God...”

That “word” was READ to them. The actual documents were priceless and kept under lock and key.

[Kansas58]

Your words:

“The very Book you condemn, condemns your religion...But you have been hookwinked into not studying it to see the truth...”

The TRUTH:

THE VERY RELIGION YOU CONDEMN GAVE YOU THE BIBLE!

[Fichori]

“God did NOT write the Bible.
Nobody with any real knowledge of Bible history says otherwise.
The Bible is inspired by God, but not written by God.” [excerpt]

Your statement is a bit broad.

Part of the OT was in fact written by God.

¶ And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exodus 31:18

“When people did begin to write down various books and letters and such, it was rare that one Priest would ever see more than a few different works, in his entire lifetime.” [excerpt]

Ah yes, God's holy and royal priesthood.

¶ Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1st Peter 1:1-2, 2:5, 2:9

I would have to say that, back in the very start of the Church, many of God's holy and royal priesthood did indeed read Paul's letters, considering the fact that they were addressed to them.

[Kansas58]

So, the Romans and Galatians read each other’s mail?
Think it through.
Each letter was written as a response to a specific question or problem.
Saint Paul, himself, never even seems to understand that his letters might, someday, be regarded as Holy Scripture.
Paul addressed specific people about specific events and problems.
It is very much likely that a great many of Paul's letter were never preserved, at all.

As to God's involvement in every book of the Bible, yes, they were all INSPIRED by God.

As to the “finger of God” writing the 10 Commandments, good point! However, we do not have those stone tablets, do we?

Which probably explains why we have more than one version of the Ten Commandments!

[Iscool]

Saint Paul, himself, never even seems to understand that his letters might, someday, be regarded as Holy Scripture.

That's nonsense...Even Peter recognized Paul's writings as Holy Scripture...Paul carried around his books and parchments...

Paul addressed specific people about specific events and problems.

More nonsense...

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stumblingstone and rock of offense: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

So that one was just for the Romans, eh???

It is very much likely that a great many of Paul's letter were never preserved, at all.

All of Paul's letters are scripture...All of them were preserved...God said He would preserve His scripture...God didn't let that decision rest with His church, or your Church...