Posted on 02/25/2009 8:31:36 PM PST by JSDude1
Guys, just like most of you I have been interested in the 10th Amendment "State Sovereignty Resolutions"..but I have one criticism of our tactics (while I agree that some of the momementum for this movement has been opposition toward the big-Socialism that Obama, and the Congress is pushing)..Remember Bush, W. PUSHED for big-government too. I seem to recall (not being a Vermontor.sp (Orwhat they call themselves..)? myself) I remember that Because Bush and the Republican Congress voted for the war in Iraq, there was a "strong push" in Vermont (really liberal, anti-war) state to push for "Secession"..well I know the 10th Amendment resolutions are not secession, and may be a step toward it, but do not directly imply secession in the least.
WHY DON'T WE LOBBY the Good people of Vermont (even liberals) to PUSH for a Sovereignty Resolution of their own; The Federal Government has not only trampled on conservatives' rights, but liberals' as well. This would not only SHOW that this movement has bi-partisan support, but would help it GROW much IMO, too..
Are there any Vermonter Freepers out there? Let's lobby these people; I intend on calling them tomorrow..
http://www.middleburyinstitute.org/
http://www.vermontrepublic.org/
Ping!
liberals always have been useful idiots to some, what say conservatives try to use it to our advantage for a change.
Sounds good.
It is not about “Party” it is about preserving a Free Nation.
Well, my personal opinion..
I don’t think all liberals are evil..just that their ideas DO NOT work, and are fundamentally (99.999% wrong) ;-). SOME are still good Americans, that just haven’t learned the right thing yet, or may eventually come around :-D!
Until they come around, can we please keep them somewhere where they cannot damage the country. stupidity should not be tolerated.
Agreed; that’s one reason why WE SHOULD encourage Vermont Republic (then they can have a socialist haven there, and leave us ALONE afterword..)!
It has divided us into liberals, conservatives, by race, by gender and by faith for devious reasons.
Its time to all work together to put the genie back in the bottle! Thanks for your post!
All Liberals Are Evil - But Some Liberals Are More Evil Than Others.
Libs come in two flavors; useful idiots aka banal evil and wannabe dictators aka active evil. Period.
There are liberals who advocate sovereignty. I have read much about the proposed Second Vermont Republic. Initially I was excited and had similar feelings with the poster here - patriotic Americans of all stripes should assert their states' rights and serve notice to the federal government that we do not take lightly our freedom and treasure being squandered.
Then I read that Socialist Bernie Sanders is vermontrepublic.org's ideal for their voice of independence and leadership. I don't know what Sanders thinks of them, but by their endorsement of him and their stated values they are clearly angling for a more socialist sovereignty. They feel America is too jingoistic, too powerful, too capitalist and basically a right wing hellhole.
Isn't liberalism itself the cause of our present feelings about sovereignty? What has driven our nation's drift towards centralization, insane entitlement spending, and usurpation of basic rights to self-defense, privacy, freedom of thought and speech? What force has allowed litigation to trump representative democracy? What force has overtaken our schools, our culture, and our academia? Modern liberalism and modern liberals.
I agree with the poster about the Bush administration's missteps. But those missteps, in my opinion, always occurred when he abandoned Constitutional and conservative principles.
Liberals are free to join our movement - all Americans are. But this is a political movement which must have a stated philosophy that is more then mere frustration. If a liberal decides that the precepts of personal freedom and responsibility, honesty in discourse and governance, and adherence to the Constitution and its' framers intent and principles are important enough to join us... then they've ceased to be a liberal.
b/c libs like it.
No thank you. It’s because of THEM that we are in the fix we’re in.
Yes, it is.
Thanks for the ping. FWIW, I have spent years trying to talk sense to libtards. The single most compelling observation I’ve been able to bring away from most of those conservations is that their brains are not properly wired. Reason, logic and rational, linear thought processes are like abstract concepts to them. Talk about a hostile work environment! My frustration level pegs the meter when trying to deal with these people. I don’t need the heartburn, but that’s just me...
I agree about liberalism ruining basically ALL our modern institutions, but I and while I agree, even for myself that liberalism is one of the reasons why I suppor the State Sovereignty idea, I would say that It goes further than that I support state sovereignty because of the Constitution, and that tryants have taken over the Federal government. I think we should expand this movement beyond just the conservative/liberatarian/right-wing to make it truely mainstreme in the eyest of the public on whole. The Constitution, goes beyond just us, or at least it should 10th Amendment should mean that if I want to live in a state where gay marriage is illigal, abortion is illigal, we have basic free-marke principles, low taxes small government, and NYC, VT, CA want socialism and nanny-state liberalism then I can live in my state, and enjoy freedom, prosperity, and my religion, and they can live in their secular liberal society, and I don’t have to be FORCED to live their way by a homogenous Federal Tyranny Socialist/Marxist loving Federal government.
I understand what you mean. And I hope that as the movement grows and there is more coverage and debate about it that ‘liberals’ and people of all stripes will see the wisdom of it and join. But we all can’t join.
The government becomes totalitarian, whether benignly or tyrannically, basically because people want, agitate for or just accept that it take on more power and responsibility for their lives. What we call ‘liberalism’ today is actually just socialism. That ideology and those who live by it cannot be part of a movement for sovereignty, as they don’t believe in it. By definition, this is a conservative/right-wing movement.
If you mean that we should spread the word far and wide and convince our ‘liberal’ friends to change their ideology and join us - I’m with you. But if you’re saying that all ideologies could work together within a movement, I disagree. ‘All ideologies together’ is what got us in this mess.
They hated the war in Iraq, but loved to whine to the UN about his WMD’s and human rights abuses...unstoppable hand wringing, but no action.
When action occurred and the menace was taken out, they decried that...
When 20,000 lives were saved by (then) legally waterboarding a Muslim terrorist, they piss and moan about his “rights” and how we shouldn’t torture...
They are noticably silent on the beheadings and suicide bombs, I guess those are just being “multicultural”.
In order for socialism to survive there must be a mechanism of collecting and distributing resource. This ultimately leads to a tyrant's source of power.
The goal of the state sovereignty movement should ultimately be the repeal of the 16th amendment which gave the feds the ability to collect tax from individual citizens. Another goal is reduction in duplication of bureaucracy.
While the above will not eliminate socialism it should make it exceeding difficult for socialism to become the prevailing governance within the fifty states.
Lots of good information here (if I do say so myself):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2193442/posts
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