[PhiKapMom]

You are correct about the word cloture — you have to vote no to continue the debate. They still need 60 votes on this bill because of the rules put in place by Lott/Dems so nothing could be rammed through the Senate but they have the 60 with the three turncoats. It used to be 51 but they made all those quirky rules which have never been rescinded as far as I know.

[originalbuckeye]

So, even with the nonexistent debate over the Dems still need 60 votes to pass it out of the Senate? RINOs will be the ones to give 0bama cover to call it bipartisan. I even heard today that the ‘Gang of 18’ consisted of 15 Dems and those 3 Repubs. Not exactly bipartisan no matter how you look at it. But we all knew that 0bama was a pathological liar.

[Cboldt]

-- They still need 60 votes on this bill because of the rules put in place by Lott/Dems so nothing could be rammed through the Senate ... --

Nope. The vote today was to limit debate on one amendment. Associated with that is an agreement to have vote on final passage set at 60, with the potential for additional "point of order" votes which are, by Senate rule, set at 60. The 60 vote threshold for the vote on final passage is just a short cut combination cloture/final passage vote. Senators know that it takes 60 to limit debate, and when the KNOW there are 60 supporters, they usually agree to skip the formality of separate cloture and substantive votes.

The pair of cloture.substance votes can happen on many single items. In this case, the two single items are 1) amendment and 2) bill.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

In the past cloture was not used on every vote, just on a few key issues every year or two. Cloture used to require a two-thirds vote, but earlier than that, if you remember Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, filibusters used to go on even if one Senator alone supported it. The majority would debate 24 hours a day, waiting for the exhausted filibusterer to yield the floor, at which point the final vote on passage would occur.