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Jurist (R. Bork) predicts ‘terrible conflict’ will endanger U.S. Catholics’ religious freedom
CNA ^

Posted on 01/21/2009 4:46:45 AM PST by fabrizio

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To: giotto
Saving the 501(c)(3) status of the Catholic Church in the U.S. is more important than saving souls.

And ultimately, more important than saving unborn children, because the failure to provide leadership regarding the Nov. 4 election resulted in 56% of Catholics voting for one of abortion's fiercest advocates.

81 posted on 01/21/2009 5:05:52 PM PST by giotto
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To: steve86
Wow, unless you're in the Diocese from Hell (and, sadly, some people are), there must be an Ordinary Form Mass somewhere that's reverent and proper.

Our parish is Ordinary Form, although we chant the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin every First Sunday. Our younger Parochial Vicar has gotten hold of the DVD from the FSSP and is learning the Extraordinary Rite (the younger priests in this archdiocese are VERY orthodox). Of course, our archbishop invited the FSSP in years ago - their parish is down the road a ways and doing quite well.

But our priests are holy men and careful to celebrate reverently, we kneel in all the proper places, nobody looks at you funny if you kneel to receive or receive on the tongue (I always do). (But if you hold hands during the "Our Father" or do the "holy field goal attempt" at the Sursum Corda, you WILL get funny looks!)

But before skipping my Sunday obligation just because I was upset, I would find a holy priest and clear all this with him, rather than making a judgment based on feelings and something you read on the internet. I have been to some pretty strange Masses rather than miss . . . as Sister Mary Attila used to say, "Offer it up!"

82 posted on 01/21/2009 8:16:38 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary - recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Thank you, but I am of the steadfast conviction that any Mass not celebrated Ad Orentem is blasphemous, in the sense of being impiously irreverent and man-centered, not to mention the important omissions and changes to the liturgy, and general Protestant-isms that permeate the actions of the priest and servers. So that won't be possible.
83 posted on 01/21/2009 8:52:45 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: AnAmericanMother

“But before skipping my Sunday obligation just because I was upset, I would find a holy priest and clear all this with him”

In this diocese you’d have better luck finding a leprechaun.


84 posted on 01/21/2009 9:35:25 PM PST by dsc (A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.)
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To: fabrizio

A lot of praying as well as suffering ahead!


85 posted on 01/21/2009 10:42:30 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Retired COB

That’s a good point! Catholics and Baptists (and other denominations that still hold real Christian values) need to unite against the common enemy. The Catholic bishops are not strong, a few are, most are not, better ones are coming, but we can’t wait around for them. It’s got to be from the folks.

I’m Catholic and know many Baptists and have been a guest at Baptist services. I am so impressed with them. I see we have huge gaps in theology, but the core values are the same. These Baptists are loving and strong and active, unlike so many lukewarm in both Catholic and protestant churches. Instead of trying to convert one another, let’s focus on our mutual beliefs and fight the evil in our society. There’s power in unity. We are all together in that 47% that did NOT vote for Obama.


86 posted on 01/22/2009 12:41:15 AM PST by baa39 (Mater Dei, ora pro nobis.)
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To: wintertime

“And still most Catholics voted for Obama. Again: why?”

Wintertime, the only answer I can possibly come up with is in contradiction to your tagline. No offense, but I begin to wonder: maybe most people ARE stupid.


87 posted on 01/22/2009 12:47:34 AM PST by baa39 (Mater Dei, ora pro nobis.)
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To: wintertime

Our kids need to come out of the public schools PERIOD


88 posted on 01/22/2009 6:39:47 AM PST by HailReagan78
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To: steve86

Your call.


89 posted on 01/22/2009 7:00:38 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary - recess appointment))
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To: HailReagan78
Our kids need to come out of the public schools PERIOD
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The common faithful Catholic can reform his church simply by educating his **own** children, and joining with his Catholic neighbors in helping to educate theirs.

This can be done regardless of whether the bishop is a traditionalist or a Marxist sympathizing Liberation Theologist.

In one generation these faithful Catholics can begin to send sons into the priesthood and they will eventually rise to positions of influence.

90 posted on 01/22/2009 7:00:45 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: dsc
That's really a shame. You know, though, they do pop up if you search (priests, not leprechauns - although I dunno, never really hunted for a leprechaun < g >.) My daughter, away at college, found at a way-out parish run by Jesuits, but there is one ancient priest (and I'm not kidding, he must be 90) who is a straight-up faithful old-fashioned Soldier for Christ, and a good confessor. I've met him.
91 posted on 01/22/2009 7:04:39 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary - recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

“but there is one ancient priest (and I’m not kidding, he must be 90) who is a straight-up faithful old-fashioned Soldier for Christ, and a good confessor.”

I found such a priest — in Tokyo — but not here.


92 posted on 01/22/2009 8:50:37 AM PST by dsc (A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

“I do not understand how he can hold this wrong-headed view and be reliable on any other issue.”

Have you read “Slouching Toward Gomorrah?”


93 posted on 01/22/2009 8:53:02 AM PST by dsc (A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.)
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To: wintertime

“In one generation these faithful Catholics can begin to send sons into the priesthood”

How are they going to get into the priesthood while the sodomites control the seminaries?


94 posted on 01/22/2009 8:54:23 AM PST by dsc (A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.)
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To: dsc
Yep, and I'll tell you my problem with it all.

He talks a good game for publication, but when it came down to his actual work, he refused to support the Second Amendment.

What that tells me is that he trusts government, not individuals. Despite all his holy talk, when push comes to shove he'll be backing the government.

That's why a politician's position on the 2nd Amendment is my litmus test. It tells me whether he trusts me or not.

Judge Bork does not trust me.

95 posted on 01/22/2009 9:27:29 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary - recess appointment))
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To: dsc
I think Southern dioceses on the whole are more blessed in our priests (and even our bishops). Our diocesan priests are by and large straight up orthodox faithful men. Especially the young go-getters, they are ultra-orthodox.

I am very leery of Jesuits, however, wherever I encounter them. They set off the same radar for me that always made me bore in for cross-examination of a witness.

I have been surprised by the Franciscans -- I've met a lot of goofy ones, but they're still good faithful priests and they love Jesus.

96 posted on 01/22/2009 9:32:44 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary - recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

“he refused to support the Second Amendment.”

I hereby direct you to cater to my laziness and give me a citation for that.

Or...rather...maybe...could you tell me someplace to look that up?


97 posted on 01/22/2009 1:51:37 PM PST by dsc (A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.)
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To: dsc
It was during his testimony during the confirmation hearings. I watched a good portion of them.

The NRA was not behind him for precisely that reason.

He also has said the same thing in several print interviews, one iirc with Life magazine.

All I would do to find them is google them, same as you.

98 posted on 01/22/2009 3:55:45 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary - recess appointment))
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