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1 posted on 01/17/2009 11:27:40 AM PST by Publius
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To: Publius

Please add me to your ping list. I have been catching up on Rand and Orwell books. I would love to discuss.


92 posted on 01/18/2009 9:22:42 AM PST by tndarlin
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To: Publius
Great job you're doing here.

The topic of objectivism made me think of a gentlemen who passed away a few years ago who was an excellent writer as well as a highly perceptive individual:

E.G. Ross

I used to read his column "The Objective American" and bought one of his books.

The Objectivism WWW Service

To his memory.

97 posted on 01/18/2009 10:05:17 AM PST by George Smiley (Palin is the real deal.)
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To: Publius

Please add me to the list of pingage. Thanks in advance.


98 posted on 01/18/2009 10:06:40 AM PST by ExGeeEye (COTUS 2A should be the USA's ONLY gun law.)
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To: Publius

Please add me to the ping list.


120 posted on 01/18/2009 3:07:00 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: Publius
Looks like I'm late to the party!

A few observations:
RE the oak tree of Eddie's memory - “He felt safe in the oak tree's presence; it was a thing that nothing could change or threaten; it was his greatest symbol of strength.” When lightning struck the tree and he found that the trunk was only an empty shell, he felt deeply shocked and betrayed.

Right after this passage, he arrives at the Taggart Transcontinental building. He smiles at the sight of it and thinks about how it will always be there. Entering the building gives him a sense of relief and security. Could Taggart Transcontinental be his rotted tree? He knows that the rest of the world is falling apart - businesses are closing, things are going wrong and no one seems to care. But he does still have faith in the railroad.

The scene with the train crew (”I don't intend to stick my neck out.”) reminds me of the attitude I see more and more in my own dealings with people. No one wants to take initiative, no one wants to take a risk, no one wants to be held responsible if something goes wrong. I think our increasing concerns about liability and the threat of lawsuits has had a profound effect on how we live our lives. Everyone, from doctors to thrift shop owners, has to worry about covering his butt these days.

The psychological terms “learned helplessness” and “external locus of control” also come to mind. Learned helplessness is when an individual comes to believe through experience that no matter what he does, it will be wrong, or punished, or ineffective - so he gives up and does nothing. When incompetence is rewarded and success is punished, the feeling of “Why bother?” becomes more and more pervasive.

In Atlas Shrugged, as in life, it seems that the producers (and the conservatives) show an internal locus of control - they perceive themselves to be in control of what happens to them and they take responsibility for their own lives and choices. The liberals show an external locus of control - they believe their environment, unseen forces, or other people control their decisions and their lives. The conversation between Dagny and Jim is an excellent example - Jim blames everyone else for his problems, letting his metaphoric canoe drift where the current takes it, while Dagny takes charge and paddles her canoe where she wants it to go.

Why do we seem to be turning into a country of “externals?” Could it be that our educational system discourages risk taking and entrepreneur-ism, while it teaches helplessness? John Taylor Gatto (author of Dumbing Us Down) would say yes. But even in my own homeschool, I struggle with this. My 10 year old came to me this week with an idea to make and sell a product for kids online. All I could think of was the new CPSC bill and lead testing and product liability insurance and it just didn't seem worth the effort and the risk. It made me so sad to have to explain this to my young son, who still sees the world as a place of unlimited possibilities. I want to encourage them to reach for their dreams, but I'm becoming jaded by the direction the country has taken.

122 posted on 01/18/2009 8:49:18 PM PST by Savagemom (Educational Maverick (at least while homeschooling is still legal))
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To: Publius
Here's a question I've always wondered about, and I'll try not to spoil the ending!

Many of the characters in Atlas Shrugged are painted as either highly moral (Dagny, Hank Rearden, d'Anconia, et al), or highly evil (Jim Taggert, Oren Boyle, Lillian & Philip Rearden, Wesley Mouch, et al), as defined by Rand's objectivist philosophy. There are few characters in the middle.

But then there's Eddie Willers, Dagny's assistant, and lifelong friend. Eddie doesn't have exceptional talent, but moralistically, he's aligned with the "good guys" in the book. He's not a moocher. He plays a significant part in the book, nonetheless.

Who are examples of the Eddie Willers character, in today's world? What is Rand's opinion of people like him? Why is his character necessary?

132 posted on 01/19/2009 12:45:21 PM PST by Lou L
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To: Publius

Looks like I’m a little late to the party, but please add me to the ping list. I’m working on my first read through AS.


136 posted on 01/19/2009 4:36:06 PM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have somethin' to say)
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To: Publius

bump


146 posted on 01/20/2009 1:18:02 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life ;o)
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To: Publius
.......a tree at the Taggart estate that had been struck by lightning, revealing a hollow core destroyed by dry rot.....

This image strikes me as the core of the problems of society in this book (and by extension today's society). The tree sheltered Eddie as a child and the discovery that it was actually rotten at the core and was going to fail sooner or later is a metaphor for our society. People are consumed with appearance, not substance. Pop doesnt order a new typewriter because no matter how 'new' it may be, inside it is trash.

Moral rot, like the tree's core, is a bit harder to pinpoint...When did the tree begin to rot? At what point could it have been saved? When did our country begin to rot? At what point can we be saved?

151 posted on 01/20/2009 1:40:30 PM PST by SoftballMominVA
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To: Publius

I found my book but it is so old that I’m afraid it’ll fall apart if I attempt to read it. I’m trying to get a new copy (bookstore sold out - will probably have to order online). So, I vote for one chapter per week. :)


173 posted on 01/20/2009 8:35:59 PM PST by fellowpatriot
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To: Publius
Somewhat off topic, but today on Laura's show, somebody said that Atlas was shrugging, and later on Rush a caller said that she was thinking Gault’s Gulch.
178 posted on 01/21/2009 1:14:03 PM PST by ADemocratNoMore (Jeepers, Freepers, where'd 'ya get those sleepers?. Pj people, exposing old media's lies.)
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To: Publius
I particularly appreciated this above Intro/synopsis.

I'd been anxious to read “Atlas” for years but finally only did so about a year or so ago.

Now that I have gotten that out of my system, I think that I would rather enjoy reading it again at a more leisurely pace.

I'd feel privileged to be included on the ping list here.

185 posted on 01/22/2009 7:05:19 PM PST by Radix (There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those with loaded guns & those who dig. You dig.)
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To: Publius
Dagny immediately recognizes it as Halley, but unpublished Halley. For an old classical music person like myself, this is a stretch.

Nonsense. I clearly remember a couple of pieces that I heard for the first time because they were so instantly recognizable (to me). One was Beethoven's Choral Fantasy; and the other was Mozart's First Symphony. (I even correctly presumed a very young Mozart.)

And I don't know if someone else has already said this but I make Jean Sibelius the model for Richard Halley.

I think the oak tree on the Taggert Estate that Eddie Willers thought about was quite significant, and I do not believe it has been mentioned here.

ML/NJ

189 posted on 01/24/2009 3:05:05 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Publius
PS Sorry about the oak tree. I skimmed too quickly and did a search for "oak."

ML/NJ

190 posted on 01/24/2009 3:09:46 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Publius
Saturday is good and once a week suits me. I just got the book so I have some catching up to do.
Thank you, I'm enjoying this, especially now that the 'takers' are ruling.
192 posted on 01/24/2009 7:58:35 PM PST by Brasil (Dem motto: Demagoguery trumps truth.)
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To: r-q-tek86
Part I, Chapter II: The Chain
205 posted on 08/14/2009 6:18:06 PM PDT by r-q-tek86 ("A building has integrity just like a man. And just as seldom." - Ayn Rand)
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To: raven92876

ping


206 posted on 09/06/2010 6:07:39 PM PDT by stylecouncilor (What Would Jim Thompson Do?)
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