Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 01/17/2009 11:27:40 AM PST by Publius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-37 next last
To: ADemocratNoMore; alexander_busek; AmericanGirlRising; Andonius_99; arbee4bush; austingirl; ...
FReeper Book Club

Atlas Shrugged

Part I: Non-Contradiction

Chapter I: The Theme

Ping! The thread has been posted.

Earlier threads:
Our First Freeper Book Club: Atlas Shrugged

2 posted on 01/17/2009 11:29:24 AM PST by Publius (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius
"Who is John Galt?"
The light was ebbing, and Eddie Willers could not distinguish the bum's face.
.
.
.

3 posted on 01/17/2009 11:39:44 AM PST by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius
Jim Taggart is the weak scion to a great empire. He is gullible, arrogant, and cowardly, the dissipated heir to a fortune made by a man of steel. In many ways, he represents inherited wealth, the beneficiary of a set of values that he shames with his lassitude. A modern example would be the Kennedys, although their wealth was ill-gotten from the beginning.

Jim also represents the mediocrity that Galt & Co. shun. Left to his own devices, Jim Taggart could not make the railroad run, any more than the mediocrats in other industries can keep them working. Yet they reject the strict ethic that breeds excellence, in favor of a more inclusive, "democratic," egalitarian philosophy that ignores merit. It is that "altruism" that Rand considered the greatest threat to mankind's ultimate success. And it is a theme that will be repeated ad infinitum throughout the book.

4 posted on 01/17/2009 11:41:47 AM PST by IronJack (=)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

BTW, with our next book, could we have a couple of week’s notice before the first ‘meeting’ to have time to get a copy of the book?

Your synopsis is great too. It’s a great way to remind me what I’ve read - I was wondering if I should take notes while reading because I have such a bad memory. Now - I don’t need to and can enjoy the book more.


16 posted on 01/17/2009 12:25:14 PM PST by CottonBall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

IMHO, “the bottom line” has ruined this country.

For over 30 years, management types have looked for ways to increase profit and eliminate “waste”. Their underlings bonuses depended upon cutting costs, and jobs of others, wherever possible.

To me, there is no service any more. Very few will take a problem and solve it. Pass the buck seems to be the order of this day.

The beginning of the chapter reminded me of the old adage:

Nothing works, and nobody cares.


19 posted on 01/17/2009 12:32:34 PM PST by wizr (Blessed Jesus, bluegrass gospel & dear friends)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

Bump for later reading.


26 posted on 01/17/2009 12:53:14 PM PST by Larry Lucido (I was predestined to be an Arminian but am considering choosing Calvinism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius
5. Is there anything disturbing about the Mayor of New York wanting the current date displayed on a large calendar mounted on a skyscraper? What are the implications of this?

This is foreshadowing. As Eddie passes, he is searching for the phrase that fits the calendar, but can't think of it. Then, Pop Harper uses the phrase about an old, technologically obsolete typewriter, but Eddie lost the connection.

"Your days are numbered."

39 posted on 01/17/2009 2:29:16 PM PST by Carlucci
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius
Jim believes that priority of corporate effort should be determined by need, putting emphasis on helping the disadvantaged people of Mexico who never had a chance. Is there an echo of this in American foreign policy today, particularly with respect to delegating blame?

I see this starting to happen in the "green" movement. Suddenly the highest purpose for both individuals and companies is "saving" the planet (from something unspecified at that).

That always brings to mind the words of my mountain climbing guide years ago: "Never say you conquered the mountain. The mountain let you climb it today - you might not be so lucky next time." Nature is a lot tougher than we give it credit for. But suddenly we must spend tons of money and give up many conveniences all for the sake of saving the planet. Of course, we know that that is just a smoke screen for more government control of our lives. But people really seem to buy (literally) into it. And the people telling us to pay money and give up stuff are the ones riding around in private jets.

LOL - I'm not sure what my point is. That's just what came to mind when I read that question.

41 posted on 01/17/2009 2:40:59 PM PST by meowmeow (In Loving Memory of Our Dear Viking Kitty (1987-2006))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius
Howdy Pub'! Yeh, Saturdays will be a little tough, and this one has caught me 100 miles away from my copy of AS. Nevertheless, a couple brief comments -

Ah, James Taggart. One of my favorite villains in all of literature and, I tentatively suggest, Rand's greatest character creation. I'd place Reardon second, actually. He's an exception to my general rule that Rand's villains are more finely-drawn than her heroes and heroines. In Reardon she captures the conflict that will certainly occur in real people if Atlas really does shrug. More on him later.

But James Taggart - stem to stern, first chapter to last, you always know exactly what motivates him and you always want to choke the b@stard. The fellow who plays him on screen will have the meatiest role in the thing, IMHO. Infuriating, despicable, and delicious. Full marks to Rand on this one.

On the general topic of indifference - this is a different emotion from fear of involvement, actually, or fear of taking responsibility. Anyone who has ever worked in a large corporation has probably noticed that risk is regarded as something to be managed, to be evaluated on a more or less cost/benefit basis by persons paid to do so. That's why initiative tends to be discouraged. It has a cost. The challenge in managing a large organization is to allow for the toleration of a certain level of risk by absorbing the cost on its failure without penalizing the risk-taker. As organizations grow this tends to be more difficult to accomplish, one reason why a really good CEO is worth his or her weight in gold.

In the case of Taggart Transcontinental, one has to empathize a little with the listless employees. They'll be paid anyway, so why take the risk? Out of pride? That's the key to this one (and to any organization into which a really committed member commits more than time). Dagny certainly had her pride in it, as was only right inasmuch as her name was on it. But why should the employees? Lousy management has sucked it out of them.

Back to James Taggart and my comment about CEO's. And Dagny's astonishment at the whole thing does not reflect well on her own management abilities - if that's news to her, why? If her employees are risk-averse and intimidated, what has she done about it? The answer, that it's somebody else's job, is precisely the difficulty she notices in her people.

Could it be that Rand's fierce commitment to individualism gave her a bit of a blind spot on the issue? In Reardon especially (sorry to get a bit ahead of the chapter) we see an individual struggling to balance his own pride against the exigencies of family and a deck that is stacked firmly against him. But the object of his pride is, after all, his own creation. And so we return to the question of why Taggart's employees should have acted other than they did? Out of (shudder) altruism?

One of the complaints against Rand is that to her, only the people capable of the personal act of grand creation fully qualify as human beings deserving of respect. We see this in characters such as Eddie Willers - more of him in later chapters as I think he's a critical character in this narrative. Who will really be welcome in Galt's Gulch? How much of a god does one have to be to merit a place at the table in Valhalla?

I'd love to hear your comments on the above. May not be able to check back for awhile but it doesn't mean indifference. ;-)

42 posted on 01/17/2009 2:42:32 PM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

Please add me to the ping list. Thx!


43 posted on 01/17/2009 2:45:37 PM PST by DietCoke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

I am going to be back later to post my thoughts


47 posted on 01/17/2009 2:51:31 PM PST by GeronL (A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: self

Double ping for later. Great book.


53 posted on 01/17/2009 3:35:05 PM PST by VicVega (Sorry for the delay, my comments have to be approved before posting.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

Great discussions. Please ping me! Thanks.


54 posted on 01/17/2009 3:50:11 PM PST by mojo114
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

The country had already begun falling apart when the book starts, it just hadn’t become all that apparent to the majority.

What bugs me is how the majority continue to be sheeple as they starve and their world collapses around them. Thats eerie and seems to be the case for realm life


63 posted on 01/17/2009 5:38:15 PM PST by GeronL (A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

As I was reading about the hollow tree I couldn’t help but think about the state of California (who now cannot afford to refund overpaid taxes), and all the Jim Taggarts that helped Ca. (and soon - NY) get to this point.


68 posted on 01/17/2009 6:33:06 PM PST by Scotswife (GO ISRAEL!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius
Only the New York Central and the New Haven had direct access to New York into midtown’s Grand Central Station, a wooden structure built in 1871.

Only the New York Central and Hudson River Railroad, the New York and Harlem Railroad, and the New York and New Haven Railroad...Grand Central Depot.


74 posted on 01/17/2009 8:33:26 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Peace in the womb. www.abortionNO.org - WARNING, VERY GRAPHIC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius
Upset by the presence of a greater temple of railroading, the New York Central built a station to replace the 1871 wooden structure, which had become rather dowdy with age.

Actually, Grand Central Depot was enlarged and renovated into Grand Central Station during 1899 - 1900. It was a virtually new building.


77 posted on 01/17/2009 9:32:34 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Peace in the womb. www.abortionNO.org - WARNING, VERY GRAPHIC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius
The first villain the reader meets is Jim Taggart. Does he resemble anyone today and, if so, whom?

Some of the descendants of Cornelius Vanderbilt.

86 posted on 01/17/2009 11:56:36 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Publius

The contrast between Jim Taggart and the villains introduced later on is instructive.

The later villains, the Balph Eubankses and Claude Slagenhops and Wesley Mouches, are ideologues. They’re busily producing one bad idea after another; their life’s work is imposing their will on others. They are dedicated totalitarians, and they know exactly what they want.

Taggart, on the other hand, is a nonentity. He doesn’t have a brain in his head. He is not driven by ideology but emotion. Only emotion.

“It isn’t fair.”

“It seems to me we ought to give somebody else a chance too.”

“We ought to help the smaller fellows to develop.”

In place of reasoning he substitutes obedience to authority:

“The consensus of the best metallurgical authorities seems to be skeptical about Rearden Metal.”

That one has to sound familiar to anyone who’s ever tried to debate a liberal on Global Warming. It’s nearly impossible, because their argument always leads to “But the scientists agree! It’s a consensus!”

Taggart is, in short, your perfect Obama supporter. A puddle of thought, a sea of emotion.


87 posted on 01/18/2009 12:10:22 AM PST by denydenydeny (People in dictatorships long for truth while pampered, decadent people in the West long for myth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: All

I hope this isn’t hijacking the thread or getting in the way of its purpose, but I thought many Freepers who have read Atlas Shrugged would have a point of view from the contents of this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2166916/posts?page=11

Specifically, does this new appointee from Obama remind Freepers of any particular character in Atlas Shrugged?

It sure reminds ME of someone.


90 posted on 01/18/2009 8:47:25 AM PST by rlmorel ("A barrel of monkeys is not fun. In fact, a barrel of monkeys can be quite terrifying!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-37 next last

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson