Solar Meets Polar as Winter Curbs Clean Energy (So far Polar has the edge)

The New York Times ^ | December 25, 2008 | KATE GALBRAITH

[raybbr]

Old Man Winter, it turns out, is no friend of renewable energy.

This time of year, wind turbine blades ice up, biodiesel congeals in tanks and solar panels produce less power because there is not as much sun. And perhaps most irritating to the people who own them, the panels become covered with snow, rendering them useless even in bright winter sunshine.

So in regions where homeowners have long rolled their eyes at shoveling driveways, add another cold-weather chore: cleaning off the solar panels. “At least I can get to them with a long pole and a squeegee,” said Alan Stankevitz, a homeowner in southeast Minnesota.

As concern has grown about global warming, many utilities and homeowners have been trying to shrink their emissions of carbon dioxide — their carbon footprints — by installing solar panels, wind turbines and even generators powered by tides or rivers. But for the moment, at least, the planet is still cold enough to deal nasty winter blows to some of this green machinery.

In January 2007, a bus stalled in the middle of the night on Interstate 70 in the Colorado mountains. The culprit was a 20 percent biodiesel blend that congealed in the freezing weather, according to John Jones, the transit director for the bus line, Summit Stage. (Biodiesel is a diesel substitute, typically made from vegetable oil, that is used to displace some fossil fuels.)

The passengers got out of that situation intact, but Summit Stage, which serves ski resorts, now avoids biodiesel from November to March, and uses only a 5 percent blend in the summertime, when it can still get cold in the mountains. “We can’t have people sitting on buses freezing to death while we get out there trying to get them restarted,” Mr. Jones said.

[cc2k]

Redbob wrote:

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There’s no mention of the fact that ordinary diesel will do the same thing, just at slightly lower temperatures.

That’s why someone who knew what he was doing would have installed fuel heaters in that bus.

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That's what I was thinking. Although I thought biodiesel had a gel point as low or lower than conventional diesel. Still, winterizing additives can be used in either type of fuel to lower the gel point and make either fuel work just fine in most winter climates, even without a fuel heater.

I agree, though. This article would more appropriately be titled "Alternative Energy Meets Conventional Stupidity"

[TRY ONE]

The real test of viable forms of “alternative energy” is: does it stand on its own two legs, i.e. does it need government subsidies?!?!

Let's test -—

Do the following need government subsidies (or tax breaks) to work?

Wind: Yes, can't operate without government subsidies or tax breaks.

Solar: Yes, can't operate without government subsidies or tax breaks.

Biodiesel: Yes, can't operate without government subsidies or tax breaks.

End of story ——Case closed!

[Eric in the Ozarks]

We did quite a bit of investigating into alternative sources of energy (HVAC) when we made plans to build a new house in '01. Solar with batteries really never paid out. Wind is not reliable.
The only high tech system that paid for itself and was reliable was a ground source heat pump with deep wells and heat exchanger. We paid about twice the cost of a traditional heat/cool system but our power bills for a 100 percent electric home are about $100/month. In the summer, our power bill actually goes down since the AC is essentially free.

[wgflyer]

It rained all night
The day I left
The weather it was dry
The sun so hot,
I froze to death
Oh AlGore, don’t you cry

[SteamShovel]

I like solar collector plants using molten sulfur as a heat reservoir for 24-hour operation.

I wonder why molten sulfur, I've had to deal with it and it's pretty nasty.

I hope it works, but my inclination is that it will end up like the liquid sodium breeder reactors with a lot of trouble caused by the operating fluid.

[TRY ONE]

Yea, a ground source heat pump with deep wells and heat exchanger can work in certain area -— primarily rural. Let some Liberal try it on the East side of Manhattan!

[TRY ONE]

Yea, a ground source heat pump with deep wells and heat exchanger can work in certain area -— primarily rural. Let some Liberal try it on the East side of Manhattan!

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Is it against the law to drill a well there ?

[denydenydeny]

“We can’t have people sitting on buses freezing to death while we get out there trying to get them restarted,” Mr. Jones said.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE POLAR BEARS???? A few people freezing to death on a bus is a small price to pay compared to the safety of cute animals.

[TenthAmendmentChampion]

The fact remains that fossil fuels will be used. It makes sense therefore that we drill, that we use coal, that we refine our own sources, that we make ourselves independent of suppliers from other countries,especially countries that are unfriendly to us. Why is that so hard for Pelosi and Reid and the other Democtatic brain trusts on the Hill to understand?

They do understand all that, perfectly well. They want control of all energy sources so that the producers of energy have to bribe them to release the oil or coal a little at a time. They want to strangle the country to provide power and money to their party.

[Red_Devil 232]

What happens to all that molten sulfur if it solidifies in all the valves and connecting pipes to and from the collecting array. Sounds like a disaster. Or is it just like wind power and they they will rely on back up generation from fossil fuels to keep the system from solidifying? What we are not told by all these wind farm operators is how much electrical power they use from the regular grid when they are not generating power themselves.

Large wind turbines require a large amount of energy to operate. Other electricity plants generally use their own electricity, and the difference between the amount they generate and the amount delivered to the grid is readily determined. Wind plants, however, use electricity from the grid, which does not appear to be accounted for in their output figures. At the facility in Searsburg, Vermont, for example, it is apparently not even metered and is completely unknown. The manufacturers of large turbines — for example, Vestas, GE, and NEG Micon — do not include electricity consumption in the specifications they provide.

Among the wind turbine functions that use electricity are the following:

Yaw mechanism (to keep the blade assembly perpendicular to the wind; also to untwist the electrical cables in the tower when necessary) — the nacelle (turbine housing) and blades together weigh 92 tons on a GE 1.5-MW turbine

blade-pitch control (to keep the rotors spinning at a regular rate)

lights, controllers, communication, sensors, metering, data collection, etc.

heating the blades — this may require 10%-20% of the turbine's nominal (rated) power

heating and dehumidifying the nacelle — according to Danish manufacturer Vestas, “power consumption for heating and dehumidification of the nacelle must be expected during periods with increased humidity, low temperatures and low wind speeds”

oil heater, pump, cooler, and filtering system in gearbox

hydraulic brake (to lock the blades in very high wind)

thyristors (to graduate the connection and disconnection between generator and grid) — 1%-2% of the energy passing through is lost

magnetizing the stator — the induction generators used in most large grid-connected turbines require a “large” amount of continuous electricity from the grid to actively power the magnetic coils around the asynchronous “cage rotor” that encloses the generator shaft; at the rated wind speeds, it helps keep the rotor speed constant, and as the wind starts blowing it helps start the rotor turning; in the rated wind speeds, the stator may use power equal to 10% of the turbine's rated capacity, in slower winds possibly much more

using the generator as a motor (to help the blades start to turn when the wind speed is low or, as many suspect, to maintain the illusion that the facility is producing electricity when it is not,‡ particularly during important site tours) — it seems possible that the grid-magnetized stator must work to help keep the 40-ton blade assembly spinning, along with the gears that increase the blade rpm some 50 times for the generator, not just at cut-in (or for show in even less wind) but at least some of the way up towards the full rated wind speed; it may also be spinning the blades and rotor shaft to prevent warping when there is no wind§

It may be that each turbine consumes more than 50% of its rated capacity in its own operation. If so, the plant as a whole — which may produce only 25% of its rated capacity annually — would be using (for free!) twice as much electricity as it produces and sells. An unlikely situation perhaps, but the industry doesn't publicize any data that proves otherwise; incoming power is apparently not normally recorded.

[Balding_Eagle]

That’s why someone who knew what he was doing would have installed fuel heaters in that bus.

Never heard of fuel heaters for diesel vehicles or equipment.

How do do keep the lines from the tank to the engine warm? Heat tape?

[Donald Rumsfeld Fan]

Many good Freepers hate Al Gore and the other environmentalists enough to reject any idea of solar and wind out of hand.

Freepers know we need reliable and robust energy sources. e.g. coal and/or nuclear.

Solar and wind power doesn't cut it. It's neither reliable nor robust.

[Balding_Eagle]

A study released a few years back showed that land based windmills produced slightly under 30% of their rated capacity, water based mills a little over 30%.

The study covered more than 10,000 European mills over a more than 5 year period.

[SteamShovel]

What we are not told by all these wind farm operators is how much electrical power they use from the regular grid when they are not generating power themselves.

Wink..Wink..Nudge..Nudge

GREEN isn't REALLY "green".

The conventional infrastructure and maintenance necessary to keep it reliable and going is never discussed by the people pushing a wholesale conversion to "green" power. It can't be done without a nuclear and/or fossil power backbone.

"Green power" as it currently exists is a smoke screen used to convince us to tear down our infrastructure and join the Kommune.

[GAB-1955]

Molten sulfur isn’t the only fluid that can be used for heat retention, but I suspect it’s for getting maximum energy at night.

[Clinging Bitterly]

Diesel fuel heaters have been around as long as Diesel fuel. Usually not necessary in most of the US, but they come in all forms - built into fuel filters, wrapped around lines, or even heating whole tanks. Most Diesel engines circulate a large volume of fuel through the warm engine (or at least it's fuel injection pump) and back to the tank, so they only need a small amount of prewarmed fuel to get them started. In those cases a regular plug in block heater is usually enough for all but arctic conditions. Beyond that, the heating methods used and the reasons for having them can become quite complex. Some extreme climate engines are never shut down, even for routine maintenance such as oil changes, because restarting them would cost more time & energy than just leaving them idling for a shift or even a week or a month.

[neverdem]

Ping me for black swans like this, please. Happy New Year!

[pabianice]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*wipes eyes*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[pabianice]

I’ve just done my part for the Earth’s carbon footprint. I bought a gasoline-powered aux generator for my home. So when the power’s off, I can STILL emit CO2!