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To: SteamShovel
What happens to all that molten sulfur if it solidifies in all the valves and connecting pipes to and from the collecting array. Sounds like a disaster. Or is it just like wind power and they they will rely on back up generation from fossil fuels to keep the system from solidifying? What we are not told by all these wind farm operators is how much electrical power they use from the regular grid when they are not generating power themselves.

Large wind turbines require a large amount of energy to operate. Other electricity plants generally use their own electricity, and the difference between the amount they generate and the amount delivered to the grid is readily determined. Wind plants, however, use electricity from the grid, which does not appear to be accounted for in their output figures. At the facility in Searsburg, Vermont, for example, it is apparently not even metered and is completely unknown. The manufacturers of large turbines — for example, Vestas, GE, and NEG Micon — do not include electricity consumption in the specifications they provide.

Among the wind turbine functions that use electricity are the following:

Yaw mechanism (to keep the blade assembly perpendicular to the wind; also to untwist the electrical cables in the tower when necessary) — the nacelle (turbine housing) and blades together weigh 92 tons on a GE 1.5-MW turbine

blade-pitch control (to keep the rotors spinning at a regular rate)

lights, controllers, communication, sensors, metering, data collection, etc.

heating the blades — this may require 10%-20% of the turbine's nominal (rated) power

heating and dehumidifying the nacelle — according to Danish manufacturer Vestas, “power consumption for heating and dehumidification of the nacelle must be expected during periods with increased humidity, low temperatures and low wind speeds”

oil heater, pump, cooler, and filtering system in gearbox

hydraulic brake (to lock the blades in very high wind)

thyristors (to graduate the connection and disconnection between generator and grid) — 1%-2% of the energy passing through is lost

magnetizing the stator — the induction generators used in most large grid-connected turbines require a “large” amount of continuous electricity from the grid to actively power the magnetic coils around the asynchronous “cage rotor” that encloses the generator shaft; at the rated wind speeds, it helps keep the rotor speed constant, and as the wind starts blowing it helps start the rotor turning; in the rated wind speeds, the stator may use power equal to 10% of the turbine's rated capacity, in slower winds possibly much more

using the generator as a motor (to help the blades start to turn when the wind speed is low or, as many suspect, to maintain the illusion that the facility is producing electricity when it is not,‡ particularly during important site tours) — it seems possible that the grid-magnetized stator must work to help keep the 40-ton blade assembly spinning, along with the gears that increase the blade rpm some 50 times for the generator, not just at cut-in (or for show in even less wind) but at least some of the way up towards the full rated wind speed; it may also be spinning the blades and rotor shaft to prevent warping when there is no wind§

It may be that each turbine consumes more than 50% of its rated capacity in its own operation. If so, the plant as a whole — which may produce only 25% of its rated capacity annually — would be using (for free!) twice as much electricity as it produces and sells. An unlikely situation perhaps, but the industry doesn't publicize any data that proves otherwise; incoming power is apparently not normally recorded.

31 posted on 12/26/2008 9:29:29 AM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Red_Devil 232

A study released a few years back showed that land based windmills produced slightly under 30% of their rated capacity, water based mills a little over 30%.

The study covered more than 10,000 European mills over a more than 5 year period.


34 posted on 12/26/2008 9:54:53 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction;, one of the five top worries of the American farmer.)
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To: Red_Devil 232
What we are not told by all these wind farm operators is how much electrical power they use from the regular grid when they are not generating power themselves.

Wink..Wink..Nudge..Nudge

GREEN isn't REALLY "green".

The conventional infrastructure and maintenance necessary to keep it reliable and going is never discussed by the people pushing a wholesale conversion to "green" power. It can't be done without a nuclear and/or fossil power backbone.

"Green power" as it currently exists is a smoke screen used to convince us to tear down our infrastructure and join the Kommune.

35 posted on 12/26/2008 9:55:06 AM PST by SteamShovel (Global Warming, the New Patriotism)
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