Posted on 12/23/2008 12:09:15 AM PST by goldstategop
Given our preoccupation with politics and economics, it is easy to forget that for most of us micro issues still play a greater role in our lives. So here are some thoughts that, as heretical as they might sound, have been found extremely helpful, sometimes even marriage-saving, from listeners to my radio show, which features a male-female hour every week.
The subject is one of the most common problems that besets marriages: the wife who is not in the mood and the consequently frustrated and hurt husband.
There are marriages with the opposite problem -- a wife who is frustrated and hurt because her husband is rarely in the mood. But, as important and as destructive as that problem is, it has different causes and different solutions, and is therefore not addressed here. What is addressed is the far more common problem of He wants, she doesn't want.
It is an axiom of contemporary marital life that if a wife is not in the mood, she need not have sex with her husband. Here are some arguments why a woman who loves her husband might want to rethink this axiom.
First, women need to recognize how a man understands a wifes refusal to have sex with him: A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him. This is rarely the case for women. Few women know their husband loves them because he gives her his body (the idea sounds almost funny). This is, therefore, usually a revelation to a woman. Many women think men's natures are similar to theirs, and this is so different from a woman's nature, that few women know this about men unless told about it.
This is a major reason many husbands clam up. A man whose wife frequently denies him sex will first be hurt, then sad, then angry, then quiet. And most men will never tell their wives why they have become quiet and distant. They are afraid to tell their wives. They are often made to feel ashamed of their male sexual nature, and they are humiliated (indeed emasculated) by feeling that they are reduced to having to beg for sex.
When first told this about men, women generally react in one or more of five ways:
1. You have to be kidding. That certainly isn't my way of knowing if he loves me. There have to be deeper ways than sex for me to show my husband that I love him.
2. If this is true, men really are animals.
3. Not my man. He knows I love him by the kind and loving way I treat him.
4. You have it backwards. If he truly loved me, he wouldnt expect sex when I'm not in the mood.
5. I know this and that's why I rarely say no to sex.
Lets deal with each of these responses.
1. You have to be kidding.
The most common female reaction to hearing about men's sexual nature is incredulity, often followed by denial. These are entirely understandable reactions given how profoundly different -- and how seemingly more primitive -- men's sexual nature is compared to women's.
Incredulity is certainly the reaction most women have when first being told that a man knows he is loved when his wife gives him her body. The idea that the man she is married to, let alone a man whose intelligence she respects, will to any serious extent measure her love of him by such a carnal yardstick strikes many women as absurd and even objectionable.
But the question that should matter to a woman who loves her man is not whether this proposition speaks poorly or well of male nature. It is whether it is true. And it is true beyond anything she can imagine. A woman who often deprives her husband of her body is guaranteed to injure him and to injure the marriage -- no matter what her female friends say, no matter what a sympathetic therapist says, and no matter what her man says. (Very few men will confess to the amount of hurt and eventual anger they experience when repeatedly denied sex).
Of course, there are times when a man must simply refrain from initiating sex out of concern for his wife's physical or emotional condition. And then there are men for whom sex rarely has anything to do with making love or whose frequency of demands are excessive. (What excessive means ought to be determined by the couple before the refusals begin, or continue.) But the fact remains: Your man knows you love him by your willingness to give him your body.
2. If this is true, men really are animals.
Correct. Compared to most women's sexual nature, men's sexual nature is far closer to that of animals. So what? That is the way he is made. Blame God and nature. Telling your husband to control it is a fine idea. But he already does. Every man who is sexually faithful to his wife already engages in daily heroic self-control. He has married knowing he will have to deny his sexual natures desire for variety for the rest of his life. To ask that he also regularly deny himself sex with the one woman in the world with whom he is permitted sex is asking far too much. Deny him enough times and he may try to fill this need with another woman. If he is too moral to ever do that, he will match your sexual withdrawal with emotional and other forms of withdrawal.
3. Not my man.
Many women will argue, understandably, My husband knows I love him. He doesn't need me to have sex with him to know that. And this is especially so when Im too tired or just don't want sex. Anyway, my man only enjoys sex with me when I'm into it, too.
The importance of mutual kindness to a marriage is impossible to overstate. But while necessary, it is not sufficient. Women can understand this by applying the same rule to men. Most women will readily acknowledge that it is certainly not enough for a man to be kind to her. If it were, women would rarely reject kind men as husband material. But as much as a woman wants a kind man, she wants more than that. If a man is, let us say, lacking in ambition or just doesn't want to work hard, few women will love him no matter how kind he is. In fact, most women would happily give up some kindness for hard work and ambition. A kind man with little ambition is not masculine, therefore not desirable to most women.
Likewise, a kind woman who is not sexual with her husband is not feminine. She is a kind roommate.
Furthermore, a woman who denies the man she loves sex is not kind.
4. You have it backward.
Every rational and decent man knows there are times when he should not initiate sex. In a marriage of good communication, a man would either know when those times are or his wife would tell him (and she needs to -- women should not expect men to read their minds. He is her man, not her mother.)
But, to repeat the key point, rejection of sex should happen infrequently. And it should almost never be dependent on mood -- see Part II next week.
5. I know this and that's why I rarely say no to my husband.
This is a wise woman. She knows a sexually fulfilled husband is a happy husband. (At the same time, men need to recognize that complete sexual fulfillment is unattainable in this world.) And because a happy husband loves his wife more, this cycle of love produces a happy home.
In Part II, I will explain in detail why mood should play little or no role in a woman's determining whether she has sex with her husband.
I conclude Part I with this clarification: Everything written here applies under two conditions: 1. The woman is married to a good man. 2. She wants him to be a happy husband. If either condition is not present, nothing written here matters. But if you are a woman who loves your husband, what is written here can be the most important thing you will read concerning your marriage. Because chances are the man you love won't tell you.
I agree. When the main priority of the loving husband and the loving wife is the happiness and well being of the other, all the elements of a happy marriage and family fall into place.
Dennis Prager is correct, with the basic assumptions he listed and common sense. Most women do not understand men. I assume the reciprocal case is also true, that most men do not understand women. If you love someone, you are going to bond with them and give them what you can.
I wonder if she knew how incredibly sexy that "period" made her sentence. In a healthy marriage, that is a wonderful bond between a man and a woman.
What an interesting thread.
Some of the posts, hell...
A good mariage, relationship, is equal.
A bad day is a bad day. Deal with it. There are times getting into sweats and relaxing is all one needs.
Mutual passion is pure heaven. Something wonderful.
If one or the other had a bad day and just wants to do, well, nothing...give them space. It does not take a rocket scientist to know a bad day is what it is. One does not owe the other anything. Mutual love and respect is perfect.
Of course, knowing how to get the other to relax and blow off a bad work day......
Oh my!!!!
If not, deal with it.
Reading some of the reactions on this thread just reinforces my reluctance to ever get married. Yes, it's unreasonable to expect a woman to drop everything and be intimate with her husband precisely when he wants it, every time he wants it. I suspect this is not what Mr. Prager is advocating (but I can see where one would get that impression from what he has written).
But I don't think a little give-and-take is unreasonable. If hubby is all hot and bothered and you're not quite feeling it, why not tell him "Right now's not so good, but if you can wait till tonight/tomorrow I guarantee it will be worth it!" I suspect most men would be willing to wait- I would- and the anticipation might make things more interesting for both spouses. Or if there is something wrong, tell him about it so he can help. But a flat-out rejection with no explanation just makes it seem like she isn't interested anymore.
Of course I would expect to take the same approach for a lot of things I may not always be enthused about in a relationship. I'm not always ready for a conversation on the "state of the relationship" at the drop of a hat. Nor am I always in the mood to a be a sounding board for my SO's daily struggles, or to review the latest batch of shoes she purchased during a shopping spree. That's not to say I don't like conversing with my partner, or lending her a sympathetic ear, or sharing her interests. It's just that I don't approach these things in the same way women do. Even still, if it's something she cares about I feel like I should make some effort to accommodate her wants.
If my wife came home wanting to tell me about the horrible day she had, I would never respond with "I really don't want to hear it. I'm stressed and I have a lot going on right now." Even if I didn't want to hear it, I would either set aside what I was doing and listen, or at least tell her that I could be more supportive in an hour or so. I wouldn't just reject her outright, or expect her to perform certain tasks (say, making me a drink) to get me in more of a listening mood.
But I get the sense that if I came home looking for some physical intimacy, a lot of women would think it perfectly appropriate to tell me "I really don't want to. I'm stressed and I have a lot going on right now."
This was one of the most interesting threads I’ve ever read. Fun and informative at the same time.
I’ve been reading it on and off today but haven’t read all the posts yet. It caught my husband’s eye earlier, too so that was a fun discussion :) LOL
Maybe I’ve been lucky...making love/sex/sexual intimacy/whatever else one wants to call it, has never been a problem/issue in our marriage. I enjoy it all the time, any time. All it takes is seeing the look in my husband’s eyes to get me ready. Everything else takes a back seat, so to speak. My body is his and his body is mine.
Usually, the term apostle means Christian, and he's not. Maybe you meant prophet?
But even then, he's just arguing a rational point, not claiming to be repeating what he heard from a burning bush. Why don't we keep this rational, and not ad hominem.
Women have sex drives. I have a sex drive. I know quite a few friends, women, who don’t really care at all about making love/sex, etc. They hold it over their husbands heads as a reward for being “good” or doing what they want them to do, or whatever. And their husbands or some husbands have no clue about what any of it is all about.
You sound like my husband, lol.
Great post.
I don’t think there is THAT much difference. There are times I just want it, and he better stop what he’s doing...and he does, as I do...as long as it’s not something urgent.
I gave myself to my husband on our Wedding Day...in our vows. He gave himself to me. None of the issues of the day or problems in the world surpass the husband and wife sharing their love in that most special of ways. Actually, it brings all that matters, our committment/love to each other, to the forefront.
Plus, it’s a great stress reliever. And, everything is brighter afterwards.
That’s two ... and we intend to take over the world !
LMAO!
His list is a bit different.
Sex
Beer
Food
Sleep
Sports
Once we had kids, they ranked before Beer, Food, Sleep and Sports. ;)
The repugnance is wise. Trust it.
Great post.
LOL!
But I do hope you’re just joking.
Yep.
“When your wife rejects you, you take it very personally and no amount of pompous twaddle offsets that effect.”
I’ve heard that from my brothers and male friends throughout my life. My husband and I discussed this, too.
On the humorous side, when our last child was born, doctor said 3 weeks before sex...(4 c sections), and I said WTH? What happened to 6 weeks? With the other 3, it was no sex for 6 weeks. Doctor (female) said no, 3 weeks is fine. My husband was hilarious...cool, 3 weeks. Told him not to even attempt for 6 weeks.
Yep.
“When your wife rejects you, you take it very personally and no amount of pompous twaddle offsets that effect.”
I’ve heard that from my brothers and male friends throughout my life. My husband and I discussed this, too.
On the humorous side, when our last child was born, doctor said 3 weeks before sex...(4 c sections), and I said WTH? What happened to 6 weeks? With the other 3, it was no sex for 6 weeks. Doctor (female) said no, 3 weeks is fine. My husband was hilarious...cool, 3 weeks. Told him not to even attempt for 6 weeks.
It sure was for me. When the kitchen trash can became full, my husband would stack empty milk containers, cereal boxes... next to it. After I explained to him that when the trash was full it needed to be taken out, he stopped throwing any thing away. At one time, he had six empty cereal boxes on top of the fridge.
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