An Ugly Attack on Mormons

article.nationalreview.com ^ | December 3, 2008 | Jonah Goldberg

[Publius804]

An Ugly Attack on Mormons

The easiest targets for an organized campaign against religious freedom of conscience.

By Jonah Goldberg

Did you catch the political ad in which two Jews ring the doorbell of a nice working-class family? They barge in and rifle through the wife’s purse and then the man’s wallet for any cash. Cackling, they smash the daughter’s piggy bank and pinch every penny. “We need it for the Wall Street bailout!” they exclaim.

No? Maybe you saw the one with the two swarthy Muslims who knock on the door of a nice Jewish family and then blow themselves up?

No? Well, then surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. “Hi, we’re from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!” says the blond one with a toothy smile. “We’re here to take away your rights.” The Mormon zealots yank the couple’s wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.

As the thugs leave, one says to the other, “That was too easy.” His smirking comrade replies, “Yeah, what should we ban next?” The voice-over implores viewers: “Say no to a church taking over your government.”

Obviously, the first two ads are fictional because no one would dare run such anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim attacks.

The third ad, however, was real. It was broadcast throughout California on Election Day as part of the effort to rally opposition to Proposition 8, the initiative that successfully repealed the right to same-sex marriage in the state.

What was the reaction to the ad? Widespread condemnation? Scorn? Rebuke? Tepid criticism?

Nope.

The Los Angeles Times, a principled opponent of Proposition 8, ran an editorial lamenting that the “hard-hitting commercial” was too little, too late.

[DelphiUser]

Oh please. You do not have to apply ancient Greek metaphysics to get the trinity and other doctrines out of the bible. Just read the Gospel of John. It makes the divinity of Christ abundantly clear. Mormonism is a racist and sexist heresy.

It is my humble opinion that you don't know much about my church. If you would like to learn more, click Here otherwise continue on with your posts that appear to stem from a lack of actual knowledge.

[DelphiUser]

If you believe God gives you sanction and license to turn people against Him, then FRiend I believe you probably have a nasty surprise coming.

Recall, if you will, the Prodigal Son. Or the parable of the Lost Sheep.

You understand more of God than many Faux Christians criticizing others on this forum, my hat is off to you!

[Colofornian]

Mormons are not "Orthodox Christians" because we do not believe in the Trinity and we do not trace our authority to the Catholic church, nor do we claim that all Christians have the authority to go start their own church... [DelphiUser]

Don't stop there with the key distinctions...
...how about that Mormons believe in many gods?...
...that Mormons trace their "authority" to what was revealed to a 14 yo lad (or 16 depending on which version of his "first vision" you believe in)...
...that Mormons believe their elder spirit brothers from a spiritual pre-existence were Jesus and Lucifer...
...that Mormons believe that father-god was once a man...
...that Mormons believe they, too, either are already gods or can become one...

Mormons believe that all who believe in and accept as their savior Jesus Christ are Christians. [DelphiUser]

Yes, but then on the basis of Joseph Smith's first vision, found in Mormon scripture Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, verses 18-20... it proceeds to label these Christians as "corrupt" (all of them); and as having 100% creeds which are supposedly an "abomination" unto the Mormon god.

We believe they have not had the full truth available to them... [DelphiUser]

Well, how nice of you to slander the Bible as being less-than-forthright of God's prime AND comprehensive truths! (Need we call any more Mormon witnesses to the stand than somebody who slyly yet openly condemns the supposed "shortcomings" of the Holy Bible???)

[DelphiUser]

DieHard, are you LDS, or do you have an LDS family member? I’m just asking for full disclosure here.

I really hate to be a pest, but if you insist on full disclosure form others isn't that offering to give it yourself? (IIRC you got mad when asked questions...)

[SkyPilot]

They are filled with more hatred for Mormons than they are for the despicable acts of homosexuals.

Talk about over reaching.

To defend the truth of Christian doctrine against that of a 19th century cult that deliberately distorts scripture, leads people astray, and mocks the true sacrifice of Christ is not "hate."

This is a broken 45 rpm record that refuses to stop being played. Someone change the channel, and cancel the sequel.

By that definition, Paul was a "hater" for warning against false teachings.

There is bitter irony in your post. In your claims, you sound more the like the Left than you even realize. Anyone who disagrees with atheistic liberals is a "hater."

Moreover, Mormons of late see an opportunity for victim hood, hence all the thread about Mormons being persecuted. The fact is that Christians (which Mormons are not) have been assailed for centuries for denouncing homosexuality, and other deplorable sins.

I could say "Welcome to the party pal" and be encouraged, but the latest Mormon campaign of victim hood appears to be another transparent attempt to gain favor - and it is unconvincing.

[colorcountry]

Keep reading, you’ve obviously not caught up.

[Colofornian]

I can point out similarities of belief, the biggest being that Latter Day Saints believe the man named Jesus, born of Mary, was/is the Son of God. [acipher]

You know it's really more accurate to say that LDS believe the pre-incarnant spirit named Jesus was a son of God -- not THE Son of God. Now, if Jesus' birth to Mary made him more than that -- it that elevated Jesus to THE Son of God status, would you care to elaborate, especially based upon Brigham Young and other LDS prophets' and apostles' statements, what exact role Elohim played in the conception of Jesus within Mary?

I really question anyone who can say the line is drawn here for what is real belief in Jesus Christ on what is not. [acipher]

You've just refuted yourself. You question whether any line can be drawn in what is real belief in Jesus Christ. Yet if your "question" was poured into concrete as THE "standard" -- then why is your curvy "line" absolutely so?

[RobRoy]

>>The word hate is so overused today.<<

I hate that!

Seriously, I agree. If I am angry, it does not mean I hate. If I disagree, it does not mean I hate. If I call someone a name, it does not mean I hate.

And most importantly, if I hate what someone does, it does not mean I hate the person doing it.

[RobRoy]

>>Now ignore it. Not so easy, huh?<<

Actually, yes it is. I am either an active participant or I ignore it. It depends on whether the responses have merit and or are “interesting” to me.

[Colofornian]

If mainstream protestantism is how Jesus Christ wants things, then I certainly hope He will accept my faith as being sufficient for His Grace to apply to me. [acipher]

Not if you buy into 2 Nephi 25:23: ...saved by grace AFTER ALL WE CAN DO...

According to this thought, grace is an after-burner that ONLY kicks in after you've done EVERYTHING you can do...everything spiritually...
...everything morally...
...everything physically...
...everything emotionally...
...everything relationally...

So, have you done EVERYTHING you can do?

If The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, then I certainly hope your belief is sufficient for His Grace to apply to you.

If The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, then the same 2 Nephi 25:23 Book of Mormon standard would apply to us as well. And then, no, NONE of us has ever done enough ("all we can do") to justify God's grace ever coming our way.

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) [and, as Isaiah said, all our works are like "filthy rags" before our all-holy God]

[Colofornian]

Mormons do not call other Christians non-Cristians if the do not believe in the D&C. Understand the difference?

Yet Mormons call fundamentalistMormons "non-Mormons" if they DO believe in D&C 132? Imagine that. (What a strange & topsy-turvy world that is)

[samtheman]

thanks

[Reno232]

You seem to fashion yourself as an expert on Mormon theology, therefore, let me ask you this, what does it mean “after all we can do” according to Mormon doctrine? Please state the church's view not your opinion please.

Also, as far as the saved by grace argument, how do you explain the “faith without works is dead” scriptures & the like?

2 Chr. 15: 7 Be ye strong . . . for your work shall be rewarded.
Ps. 28: 4 (Rev. 2: 23) Give them according to their deeds.
Ps. 62: 12 (Prov. 24: 12, 29; Rom. 2: 5-11) renderest to every man according to his work.
Eccl. 12: 14 God shall bring every work into judgment.
Jer. 17: 10 (Jer. 32: 19) to give every man according to his ways.
Micah 6: 8 do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly.
Matt. 5: 6 they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness.
Matt. 5: 16 that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father.
Matt. 7: 12 whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.
Matt. 7: 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Matt. 13: 23 received seed into the good ground . . . beareth fruit.
Matt. 16: 27 (1 Cor. 3: 8; Alma 9: 27-28; D&C 138: 59) shall reward every man according to his works.
Matt. 25: 40 as ye have done it unto one of the least of these . . . ye have done it unto me.
John 3: 21 he that doeth truth cometh to the light.
John 8: 39 If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 9: 4 I must work the works of him that sent me.
Acts 10: 35 he that . . . worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Rom. 2: 13 doers of the law shall be justified.
2 Cor. 5: 10 receive . . . according to that he hath done.
Gal. 6: 4 let every man prove his own work.
Gal. 6: 7 whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Eph. 2: 10 created in Christ Jesus unto good works.
Eph. 5: 9 fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness.
2 Tim. 3: 17 perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 3: 8 be careful to maintain good works.
Heb. 13: 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will.
James 1: 22 be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only.
James 1: 27 Pure religion . . . is this, To visit the fatherless.
James 2: 22 by works was faith made perfect.
James 2: 26 faith without works is dead.
James 4: 17 him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not.
1 Pet. 1: 17 (Rev. 20: 12-13; 1 Ne. 15: 32; Mosiah 3: 24; Alma 33: 22; D&C 19: 3; D&C 76: 111; D&C 137: 9) Father . . . judgeth according to every man’s work.
1 Pet. 2: 12 your good works . . . glorify God.
2 Pet. 1: 5 add to your faith virtue.
1 Jn. 3: 18 let us not love in word . . . but in deed.
1 Jn. 3: 22 we receive of him, because we keep his commandments.
Rev. 22: 14 blessed are they that do his commandments.

And then finally, please explain how your interpretations are correct while in direct contradiction w/ other Christian religions who read the same Bible & believe in the same God.

[Osage Orange]

That said, I saw too many Mormons confuse dislike of RINO Romney with “Mormon bashing.”

BINGO!!!!!!

[DelphiUser]

Thank you. My nephew served a Mormon Mission in New Zealand (Christ Church area).

I know that the LDS has a significant presence in your neck of the woods.

This is your idea of full disclosure? ROTFLOL!

[DelphiUser]

Let’s not hijack the thread on to mormon doctrine.

Not to worry mate, no Mormon doctrine has been posted.
;-)

[SkyPilot]

Not if you buy into 2 Nephi 25:23: ...saved by grace AFTER ALL WE CAN DO... According to this thought, grace is an after-burner that ONLY kicks in after you've done EVERYTHING you can do...everything spiritually... ...everything morally... ...everything physically... ...everything emotionally... ...everything relationally... So, have you done EVERYTHING you can do?

Very good post.

A cult cannot be in control unless it can have power over its members - hence, the Grace of Christ's sacrifice "gets in the way."

[svcw]

In what universe is that?

[colorcountry]

This is your idea of full disclosure? ROTFLOL!

I wonder if I will receive an apology from you - I won't be holding my breath....Read post #21. (which was my very first post on this thread).

Oh shoot, and you must have also missed post #111. You're slipping DU. I thought you had much better reading comprehension skills.

[SkyPilot]

You seem to fashion yourself as an expert on Mormon theology, therefore, let me ask you this, what does it mean “after all we can do” according to Mormon doctrine?

Huh?

You're Mormon - why don't you tell us?

Your post is right out of Elsie's "Mormon Guide to Distract the Argument" and your post is:

"You Play Defense For Awhile!"