An Ugly Attack on Mormons

article.nationalreview.com ^ | December 3, 2008 | Jonah Goldberg

[Publius804]

An Ugly Attack on Mormons

The easiest targets for an organized campaign against religious freedom of conscience.

By Jonah Goldberg

Did you catch the political ad in which two Jews ring the doorbell of a nice working-class family? They barge in and rifle through the wife’s purse and then the man’s wallet for any cash. Cackling, they smash the daughter’s piggy bank and pinch every penny. “We need it for the Wall Street bailout!” they exclaim.

No? Maybe you saw the one with the two swarthy Muslims who knock on the door of a nice Jewish family and then blow themselves up?

No? Well, then surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. “Hi, we’re from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!” says the blond one with a toothy smile. “We’re here to take away your rights.” The Mormon zealots yank the couple’s wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.

As the thugs leave, one says to the other, “That was too easy.” His smirking comrade replies, “Yeah, what should we ban next?” The voice-over implores viewers: “Say no to a church taking over your government.”

Obviously, the first two ads are fictional because no one would dare run such anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim attacks.

The third ad, however, was real. It was broadcast throughout California on Election Day as part of the effort to rally opposition to Proposition 8, the initiative that successfully repealed the right to same-sex marriage in the state.

What was the reaction to the ad? Widespread condemnation? Scorn? Rebuke? Tepid criticism?

Nope.

The Los Angeles Times, a principled opponent of Proposition 8, ran an editorial lamenting that the “hard-hitting commercial” was too little, too late.

[acipher]

“True; but some of it’s MEMBERS sure put forth that story!!!”
Who? There are a lot of people on FR and I have yet to see someone who is a member do this. I am sure it has happened somewhere, but it is hardly a common occurrence.

[Elsie]

There are kernels of Christianity in Mormonism.

Of course there are!

It would not STAND without them!

(It's just that you have to get INSIDE the Organization® before you find out WHICH of the Christian teachings they do NOT believe in.)

Well; not really - you can see right in their AoF that WORKS are REQUIRED for Salvation.

[greyfoxx39]

ROTFL!

[netmilsmom]

>>If I see someone whose theology is so flawed it impedes their salvation, do I not have an obligation to tell them the truth? <<

If you explain your posititon on why you think you are right, you have done your job.

Remember, that is only your opinion. Mine is different. In my mind YOUR postition is wrong. Just because I state my position on a forum doesn’t mean I want to debate you, it means that I am stating my position. When you continue to tell me how wrong I am, you are overstepping what you need to do. As a Christian, you have spread the Gospel. You think your position is right, I think mine is.

Let the Lord sort it out.

[DelphiUser]

Mormons have cities?

Who knew!!

: )

The citizens all have the same last name, and parents...</Joke>

[broncobilly]

Elie, I believe you are a very contentious person. There is nothing admirable about your anti-Mormon obsession.

[netmilsmom]

I think that people tend to feel bashed when a group is written about and others feel it is their job to tell that group how wrong they are, no matter the subject of the thread.

SJackson said it perfectly and this thread is an example. This thread is not about dogma and should not be taken as an opportunity to debate that.

[Enosh]

“So stating that Jews are not people is not bashing Jews?”

This is a dishonest distortion. Nobody ever said Mormons are not people. The argument is that they are not Christian.

Further, to say that a Jew is not a Christin is not only true, it is also not an insult. They don’t claim to be.

[DelphiUser]

Perhaps you didn’t go on the threads where it was.

From a current Mormon, be aware that CC is a well known anti, she was making a funny.

[acipher]

Last I checked, mainstream Christianity believed:

Christ’s grace is what saves people and to qualify for grace you must:
- Confess belief in Jesus Christ(they like you to sign your name)

Do Mormon’s claim something different. Well yes, but “Confess belief in Jesus Christ” is still a requirement for Grace. A work in the strictest sense.

Mormon’s believe the following:

Christ’s grace is what saves people and to qualify for grace you must:
- Confess belief in Jesus Christ
- Believe enough that you repent of your sins
- Be baptized of water
- Be baptized of Spirit(Gift of the Holy Ghost)
- Endure to the end(all sorts of stuff fit in the category)

BUT it is still Christ Grace that saves, but there are requirements for Grace to apply, just like mainstream Christianity.

[Elsie]

It may surprise you, but Mormons are not even comfortable calling themselves Mormon, since the word “Mormon” originated as a derogatory nick name.

LDS.ORG says it a bit different:

• When referring to Church members, the term “Latter-day Saints” is preferred, though “Mormons” is acceptable.

 

• The term “Mormonism” is acceptable in describing the combination of doctrine, culture and lifestyle unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/style-guide

[Zakeet]

It may surprise you, but Mormons are not even comfortable calling themselves Mormon, since the word “Mormon” originated as a derogatory nick name. Mormons are continually being counsel led to try to use the full name of the Church as much as possible. Unfortunately, it is convenient to have a short name, so the use of the word “Mormon” persists.

I knew that.

However, the derogatory connotation left well over a century ago. The term "Mormonism" seems to be almost universally used and accepted to denote the faith instituted by Joseph Smith. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has trademarked the name Mormon in several jurisdictions so they can control its use whenever possible -- and they use it quite a bit in their literature and commercial advertisements. And I have never known a person in the Utah sect who objected to its use.

On the other hand, I have several friends who are members of the second largest LDS sect, the Community of Christ -- formerly the Reorganized Latter Day Saints, and they strongly object to being called Mormons, and will quickly correct anyone who does so. They have also recently taken exception to being referred to as "Latter Day Saints".

As you probably know, the term "Christian" literally means "little Christ" and was used in the first century as a derogatory term for people who followed Jesus. It was quickly accepted by believers and today is regarded as a badge of honor by His followers to be called "Christian".

[DelphiUser]

It is up to God to judge our hearts. But we have to settle our theological disputes here on earth. That was the motivation behind the Nicene Creed. Are we going to throw that away? Are we going to be silent while heresies pass themselves off as Christian? Of course not.

Please explain to me why men need to settle Theological disputes and not God.

Please explain to me how men, without God's assistance settle these disputes.

Last question is someone who believes in Jesus, but has a diff rent understanding than you do "passing themselves off" or do they really believe?

[Elsie]

Let me guess, it’s different than what you believe?

Let me state that you did NOT answer the question of WHEN Jesus became divine.

[RobRoy]

Yep. Probably THE biggie.

[netmilsmom]

>>So; Ugly Mormons used in a title is NOT sufficiant cause for ANY comments on MORMONism? <<

FReepers normally read the article. You kind of get slammed for just posting about the title.

And no, the word Mormon should not be an instant invitation to debate dogma.

Just as Pope, Rosary or Mary should not be as well.

[Elsie]

Please stop spamming that point.

Harry Truman once said:

"If you can't stand the heat; get out of the kitchen."

St. Paul said:

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
 13.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 

 

[brytlea]

Well, the Lord WILL sort it out eventually (and fwiw I think we probably are all wrong about some thing or other).
But, if one puts their position on a forum, they should expect debate, whether they want it or not. I don’t really like debating religion myself, so I rarely stake out an opinion (I don’t think this is the place to spread the Gospel, not because I think it’s inherently wrong, only that I don’t think I do a good job of it).

[DelphiUser]

It is not bigotry to observe differences between different teachings, or to compare them to a standard - in this case, the Bible. Mormonism is dramatically different than Christianity (even in its disparate forms) in what it teaches about Jesus Christ and the trinity, heaven, hell, salvation, the Devil, justification, atonement, sanctification, etc., etc., etc.

Please show me where the word Trinity appears in the KJV of the Bible... Mormons believe in the Godhead which does appear there.

That said, I hope you follow all that you know and do your best with it.

[RobRoy]

Yep. Probably THE biggie.

In fact, the BIG difference between Christianity and literally ALL religions on the earth (Ignoring the obvious stuff) is that it clearly teaches that your “eternity” and success at reaching it is not based on your efforts, but someone elses - Jesus’. Grace is the foundation (beyond God himself) on which Christianity exists and flourishes. It literally frees you to do good, not to receive some reward, but becuase it pleases your Father and, as you get to know Him better, you simply want to! No other religion includes FULL grace. Either it all depends on you, or it is a little from you and a little from your god.