An Ugly Attack on Mormons

article.nationalreview.com ^ | December 3, 2008 | Jonah Goldberg

[colorcountry]

Sorry for the cross-post.

[colorcountry]

DieHard, are you LDS, or do you have an LDS family member? I’m just asking for full disclosure here.

[Eyes Unclouded]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-fyst4-7w

[Elsie]

Yep! I always wondered who came down from heaven and gave these bigots disguised as Christians the right to proclaim who is and who isn't Christian.

 

Thease guys, perhaps??

 

Galatians 1:7-10
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
 14.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 15.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

 

 

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
 13.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Revelation 13:13-15
 13.  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
 14.  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”  

 

It appears that EXPERIENCES can be deceiving...

 

 

If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.

 

 

If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.

 

Genesis 3:1  Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.

                  He said to the woman, "Did God really say, `You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
 

 

 

 

 

 

[DieHard the Hunter]

> DieHard, are you LDS, or do you have an LDS family member? I’m just asking for full disclosure here.

Nope, and nope. I have met a few LDS (unavoidable here as there are many), once in a while they call around and try to convert me: when I have time I invite them in and have a yarn. But nope, I’m not LDS or any other denomination for that matter.

I am, however, considering joining the Catholic church.

[acipher]

Wow. I was wondering how long it would take for the “yelling” to begin.

Disclosure: I am a Latter Day Saint.

Thanks to all of Free Republic, and especially those that have given thanks and been kind to us.

Lets examine the idea of “Mormon are not Christians”

If the intended communication is that “Mormons are not Protestants or Catholics”, then absolutely correct. Although, I have lived in Georgia for a while, and you would be surprised how similar the cultures actually are.

BUT, the intended meaning is often, “Latter Day Saint’s belief in Jesus Christ is so far from what the bible teaches, that it does not qualify as belief in Jesus Christ” I would hate to be the judge of this, and the whole idea would cause anyone serious about one’s salvation to fear’ at least a little bit.

I can point out similarities of belief, the biggest being that Latter Day Saints believe the man named Jesus, born of Mary, was/is the Son of God. We reject anything that would cast doubt on Jesus Christ’s divinity.

In the minds of Mormons, that makes us Christians, BUT I can understand why some people do not agree with that line of thinking. We are, actually, more our doctrine is rather different that Catholics or Protestants. But still, much is similar.

I really question anyone who can say the line is drawn here for what is real belief in Jesus Christ on what is not.

[Elsie]

This sounds like it’s building towards an anti-Mormon pogrom.

"How many divisions does San Francisco have?"

[DieHard the Hunter]

> I’m just asking for full disclosure here.

Fair enough — I have fully disclosed. How about you — are you or any members of your family LDS?

[colorcountry]

Thank you. My nephew served a Mormon Mission in New Zealand (Christ Church area).

I know that the LDS has a significant presence in your neck of the woods.

[Elsie]

 

 But it is not difficult to study what Mormons believe and see that it does not agree with the Bible (by itself) and Christian doctrine.

 

 

Here ya go!

 

Start HERE:

 

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Here is the creed of the LDS Organization; based in Salt Lake City:

 

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

 

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

 

 

Definitions of creed:

• From the Latin word "credere" -- to believe. A short statement of religious belief, usually motivated by a desire to emphasize church teaching as opposed to a heresy.
• A formal summary of religious belief; an authoritative statement of doctrine
• Any system of principles or beliefs
• Religious doctrine: the written body of teachings of a religious group that are generally accepted by that group
• A creed is a statement or confession of belief — usually religious belief — or faith.
• A statement of religious beliefs agreed by the church to be true.
• A system of religious beliefs, including moral or ethical beliefs about right and wrong, that are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views.
• A statement of faith binding upon a given religious body.
• A statement of faith. 
• A formal statement of religious belief/proclamation of faith 

 

 

[colorcountry]

I already disclosed up thread here. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2142186/posts?page=21#21. You might have missed it.

I am now non-denominational Christian.

[netmilsmom]

Ooops, See the date?

It’s stating that a Mormon Baptism is not valid in the Catholic church. In otherwords if a Mormon wants to become Catholic, he/she must be baptised there.
I’m sure means a lot to a Mormon. Just like their Baptism after my death means a lot to me /s/

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Yep! I always wondered who came down from heaven and gave these bigots disguised as Christians the right to proclaim who is and who isn’t Christian.***

It was Joseph Smith who walked out of the woods proclaiming thaqt he had a message from God and all Christians were false and ONLY he was right and he would tell you how right he was or else you would be sorry!

Let’s not hijack the thread on to mormon doctrine.

The origional add was false and it was not ONLY mormons who voted for Prop 8 but many Christians and non Christians who knew homo marriage was just wrong. After all, 40 years ago marriage was declared unnecessary if you truly loved someone. Living together was all that was needed. The Marriage license was just a piece of paper.

Now marriage is the most important thing a person can do...but only if you are gay!

[lady lawyer]

We conservatives must treat our doctrinal differences with respect, and just agree to disagree, if we are going to have an effective coalition. It is in the interest of the Left to keep us at each other’s throats. In fact, I wonder if some of the Mormon and Catholic bashers aren’t actually trolls for the Left.

Such coalitions work. I’ve participated in them. It worked in California for Prop. 8.

[Elsie]

I have a good opinion of every Mormon I've ever met, as a person, but if they hold to their religion they are going to Hell. :-(

Not if MORMONISM is true!!

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

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"If I ever pass into heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of Prophet Joseph"
--Brigham Young
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

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Dear Reader: what does it sound like to YOU?

[DieHard the Hunter]

> I am now non-denominational Christian.

Fair enough and thanks — I had missed it.

I also forgot to disclose that I’m a Freemason (that is also in my About page). Tho’ this is not a religion, some people (wrongly) believe that it is.

“non-denominational Christian” is probably best way to describe me, too.

[AnalogReigns]

Catholics & Baptists (& Methodists, Presbyerians, Lutherans, Bible churches, generic evangelical Churches, along with 99% of churches who call themselves “Christian”) all profess belief in One God who created all that is, existing from all eternity in 3 Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

LDS/Mormonism does not. In the opinion of traditional theologians from all the previously mentioned groups, the LDS does not hold to this or other essential doctrines ALL Christians have for 2000 years.

In the opinion of your founder Joseph Smith, all (Chiristian) churches were “an abomination” hence, I do not know why you wish for the recognition of us abominable Christians. Be happy, be Mormon—and I won’t discriminate against you—but please don’t claim the mantle “Christian.”

Disagreeing, even strongly with another’s beliefs is NOT “bashing” except under a liberal, PC understanding of pluralistic relativism.

I saw the ad in question, and it truly was abominable, as it was a lie, and truly “bashed” (with lies) a small minority religion. That doesn’t mean Christians shouldn’t speak the truth—in love—to defend the good news of the biblical Jesus Christ.

[Elsie]

Questioned the claims of Mormonism? Well, yes certainly - that happens all the time.

Well; there you go!!

This just PROVES you are a Hateful Bigot who probably has a lot of secret sin in your life!

--MormonDude(But we'll take you back at any time.)

[colorcountry]

You do know that the Catholic Church views other baptisms by Christian sects as valid don't you? It is only those sects that are determined to be outside Christianity that Catholicism doesn't recognize.

[broncobilly]

You don’t need Greek metaphysics to understand the divinity of Christ, but you do need Greek metaphysics to comprehend three in one and one in three.
The Gospel of John says nothing about what is meant in the Creed by three in one and one in three.