Obama Fomenting A Constitutional Crisis: Constitutional Lawyer Discusses Ramifications

The Bulletin ^ | 12/1/08 | John Connolly

[pissant]

Controversy continues to surround President-elect Barack Obama's eligibility to serve as president, and a case involving his birth certificate waits for its day before the U.S. Supreme Court. A constitutional lawyer said were it to be discovered that Mr. Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen, it would have grave consequences for the nation.

According to the Constitution, a president must be a natural born citizen of the U.S. Mr. Obama's critics have failed to force him legally to produce his original birth certificate, and Mr. Obama has resisted any attempt to make him do so. Currently, only Hawaii Department of Health officials have access to Mr. Obama's original records.

Some of Mr. Obama's critics have said he was born in Kenya and have claimed he is a citizen of Kenya, Indonesia, or even a British subject.

Edwin Vieira, a constitutional lawyer who has practiced for 30 years and holds four degrees from Harvard, said if it were to be discovered Mr. Obama were not eligible for the presidency, it would cause many problems. They would be compounded if his ineligibility were discovered after he had been in office for a period of time.

"Let's assume he wasn't born in the U.S.," Mr. Vieira told The Bulletin. "What's the consequence? He will not be eligible. That means he cannot be elected validly. The people and the Electoral College cannot overcome this and the House of Representatives can't make him president. So what's the next step? He takes the oath of office, and assuming he's aware he's not a citizen, then it's a perjured oath."

Any appointments made by an ineligible president would have to be recalled, and their decisions would be invalidated.

[MississippiMan]

My question becomes, if this is the case, would the entire election become null? Senators, Congress and ballot issues? One can se the anti-prop 8 loonies crying for this.

They'd be the ONLY Democrats wanting a do-over. As for me, I'd love a new election across the board after it's known far and wide that the Democratic party just tried to install a foreigner in the Oval Office. Sadly, a significant percentage of Democrats just wouldn't care, but enough would care to turn it into a GOP landslide.

All that said, it ain't gonna happen. I can't imagine how anything other than the presidential election would be affected.

MM (in TX)

[Constitutions Grandchild]

Yes, but you MUST have that degree for anyone to listen. It doesn't matter that you “pencilled-out” of every course, graduated from grade and secondary school early, could write your Ph.D. thesis by the time you ended your Sophomore year; so thought you'd blow you brains out if you had to sit through one more dunce waxing poetic about macro/micro economics when he'd never invested in a stock, or had one more Ph.D. ask you to translate the five French novels you'd read in high school “just one more time”; or buy one more expensive “required reading” literary endeavor entitled “History of the World” by an aspiring millionaire with the creativity of an amoeba so that's why he's teaching History at the college level who would only sell a copy of his expansive revisionist's view of history to his wife and mother were it not for your support.

In other words, it's the sheepskin, baby, or you can kiss your authenticity goodbye and don't EVER be expected to have your opinion sought or be given a job that requires you to think — nope, not in this lifetime.

[1951Boomer]

Yes, a brilliantly fabricated fraud of a BC is probably already being produced somewhere, probably aged perfectly under just the right lighting. I wonder, though, if the vault “caretaker” hasn’t wanted to at least take a tiny peek at the real deal, just once. I would if I worked there. Somebody in that office building has access to these sorts of things. How long will it be before someone, somewhere is unable to keep the secret if given the right “incentive”? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[TexKat]

Bureau of Consular Affairs

The mission of the Bureau of Consular Affairs (CA) is to administer laws, formulate regulations and implement policies relating to the broad range of consular services and immigration.

Passports
Bureau of Consular Affairs is the bureau responsible for issuing passports to U.S. citizens. In fiscal year 2002, Bureau of Consular Affairs, through sixteen U.S. passport agencies and two processing centers, issued over 7.4 million U.S. passports to American citizens planning to travel overseas.

Citizen Support
The Consular Affairs Office of Overseas Citizens Services advises and supports US citizens and our embassies and consulates around the world

Visas
Following regulations established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act, consular officers overseas, under the guidance of the Bureau’s Office of Visa Services, are responsible for issuing all non-immigrant and immigrant visas. (Over 5.7 million non-immigrant visas and approximately 390,000 immigrant visas were issued in fiscal year 2002.)

The Bureau of Consular Affairs also administers the provisions of that same legislation as they relate to the Department of State in coordination with the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services in the Department of Homeland Security.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Bureau-of-Consular-Affairs

[MHGinTN]

I doubt that Governor Lingle has looked at the document, because she is an honorbale Lady and would not violate the privacy issue. BUT Fukino is a different toad to consider. She has connections to the Communist movement in Hawai’i and actually knew Barack senior and is found in pictures with him. She is not to be trusted and I do not doubt she would aid and abett the usurpation of this Republic by helping to substitute just what the Obamanation needs to allow out. The next issue to deal with will be his vague Indonesian connections and travel to Pakistan at a time when Ameircan passports were not allowed into that country.

[tx_eggman]

Section III. 20th Amendment:

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

Joe gets the job.

[IrishPennant]

Thanks TexKat...I had some dealings with CA some time back and thought they were exclusive in immigration type issues. What you posted shows they are full range into the domestic side as well.

[pissant]

I know. The VP has the job temporarily, and only temporarily. Hence the word “act”

[MHGinTN]

Clear as a bell, even addresses this particular case! Gosh those were samrt old white guys don’tchaknow.

[Non-Sequitur]

So then if a family of four comes to America and the parents are naturalized, that the children remain aliens??? That is just "plain crazy".

Agreed. Which is one of the areas I disagree with Donofrio's interpretation.

Then why did the Senate in Resolution 511 make it dependent upon McCain having been born of two American citizens:

A Senate resolution is not the same as a law. And in fact I don't think S511 was necessary at all. By all reasonable interpretations of the laws on the books McCain is a natural born U.S. citizen and eligible to run for president.

[dbacks]

“...it would have grave consequences for the nation.”

BullS**T

He would be arrested for fraud, possibly treason depending on his true nationality, then drummed out. I don’t think the dems would have the ‘nads to try to sluff this past.

If so, I would volunteer to lead an armed revolt. Suck on that SS!

[dbacks]

I shud have also said, this,, to me.. is definitive proof that they (Dems) know he is illegal.

[bvw]

I’m not sure that is the answer. IF it is discovered that that the ticket was a fraud, Biden could be eliminated from any consideration. I take the 12th’s “case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President” to be read as an occurrence after the electors have sealed their vote. That would limit the other disability to some act that renounces citizenship, or a major impairment of health or sanity that leaves the person unfit for office by any reasonable standard.

[1951Boomer]

Yes, Hillary holds the Rook card that she may soon, hopefully, slam down on the table. Since she and her buffoonish spouse first came on the scene, I’ve thought she was the wicked witch of the west and an arkancide enabler. But compared to a Prez Fauxbama (<love that one), she would at least, I’d hope, exercise SOME germ of human compassion and wisdom that “the one” coldly lacks.

[Non-Sequitur]

READ the decision ...

I have. Have you?

SCOTUS ruled that he was a “citizen” - NOT “natural born citizen” and it was ENTIRELY correct, per interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

No, the Court ruled he was a citizen at birth. U.S. laws define citizen at birth as opposed to naturalized citizen. You would have to point out to me what the difference between 'citizen at birth' and 'natural born citizen' is and where that is legally defined for your position to be correct.

As far as my SPECIFIC interpretation, yes ... it is my opinion, STRONGLY supported by Blackstone and Vatel - whom the Founding Fathers relied upoun heavily when formulating law.

But you would be better had your position been STRONGLY supported by U.S. law and Supreme Court decisions. Until it is, it is your opinion only.

BTW: Under your interpretation, a child of Hitler during WWII, born on U.S. soil would be a “natural born” citizen ... that is NOT the case - look it up ...

No it would not, which indicates that you haven't read the Ark decision or any of the applicable laws. If you had you certainly would have read this part: "The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: the Fourteenth Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory..."

So your suggestion that Hitler's offspring would have been citizens is, of course, ridiculous.

[dbacks]

“One can se the anti-prop 8 loonies crying for this.”

How would this effect Prop. 8? There is no Constitutional crisis. There are current modes to cure this. It wouls certainly end up with the Supremes. IMHO!

[Non-Sequitur]

That is, assuming SCOTUS determined that the original 365 electors voting the POTUS question could remain in place.

And why would they not? What article of the Constitution would allow the Justices to declare them invalid and remove them?

[Uncle Chip]

So then if a family of four comes to America and the parents are naturalized, that the children remain aliens??? That is just "plain crazy". Agreed. Which is one of the areas I disagree with Donofrio's interpretation.

But isn't Donofrio right here. Children of immigrant parents become citizens along with their parents, just not "natural born" citizens. However if born after their parents are naturalized, they become natural born citizens. Isn't that how it works???

A Senate resolution is not the same as a law.

But surely the Senate would not draft a resolution that runs counter to the law, would they???

And in fact I don't think S511 was necessary at all. By all reasonable interpretations of the laws on the books McCain is a natural born U.S. citizen and eligible to run for president.

Which interpretation would that be?? the one requiring both parents to be citizens or requiring him to be born on American territory??? And since he failed the latter and was born off the American military base, then it must be his birth by two American citizens, right???

[08bil98z24]

This imaginary situation would not help republicans and would hurt them even

That is exactly what this issue is, an imaginary situation. Unfortunately, all this issue is doing is distracting us from figuring out how the Republicans are going to win back the trust of the people and retake the congress.

Fellow Freepers would be very unhappy with the effects of this.

Very true, but few want to believe in reality.

Before I'm accused of defending Osama Obama, let me remind many that I was accused of being a McCainiac for continually stating that it was everyone's duty to vote for McCain as Obama needed to be defeated at all costs!!!!

[XenaLee]

Well I, for one, am sick to death of the liberal/leftist corruption, lies, propaganda and double-standards whereby Republicans must release every miniscule detail of their lives while DemocRats can break the law with reckless abandon and conceal even the most necessary information... and all with the complete sanction of other liberals/lefties and the leftist mainstream media.

I’ve had it. Time for a REAL change. You leading the charge, pissant?