Posted on 12/01/2008 6:04:32 AM PST by pissant
Controversy continues to surround President-elect Barack Obama's eligibility to serve as president, and a case involving his birth certificate waits for its day before the U.S. Supreme Court. A constitutional lawyer said were it to be discovered that Mr. Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen, it would have grave consequences for the nation.
According to the Constitution, a president must be a natural born citizen of the U.S. Mr. Obama's critics have failed to force him legally to produce his original birth certificate, and Mr. Obama has resisted any attempt to make him do so. Currently, only Hawaii Department of Health officials have access to Mr. Obama's original records.
Some of Mr. Obama's critics have said he was born in Kenya and have claimed he is a citizen of Kenya, Indonesia, or even a British subject.
Edwin Vieira, a constitutional lawyer who has practiced for 30 years and holds four degrees from Harvard, said if it were to be discovered Mr. Obama were not eligible for the presidency, it would cause many problems. They would be compounded if his ineligibility were discovered after he had been in office for a period of time.
"Let's assume he wasn't born in the U.S.," Mr. Vieira told The Bulletin. "What's the consequence? He will not be eligible. That means he cannot be elected validly. The people and the Electoral College cannot overcome this and the House of Representatives can't make him president. So what's the next step? He takes the oath of office, and assuming he's aware he's not a citizen, then it's a perjured oath."
Any appointments made by an ineligible president would have to be recalled, and their decisions would be invalidated.
(Excerpt) Read more at thebulletin.us ...
“But as has been pointed out repeatedly, electors are free to cast their votes any way they wish so long as there is no state law prohibiting faithless electors”
Excuse me ...
But did you READ my Post #196?
EACH candidate (Obama, McCain, Keyes, Nader, etc.) submits a list of Electoral College voterrs in EACH state that they run in ...
In MD, there are 10 Electoral Votes, but (including only the 4 candidates cited here) there are 40 POSSIBLE ELECTORAL VOTERS ... they are DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS !!!
You are ASSUMING that if Obama gets tossed, HIS ELECTORS REMAIN IN PLACE ... THAT IS FALSE !!!
They are replaced by McCain’s electors who, PRESUMABLY, will vote for McCain ...
YA THINK THEY WOULD VOTE FOR HILLARY??? - YEAH, AND I GOT A LITTLE BRIDGE IN BROOKLYN TO SELL ... CHEAP !!!
And will be found wanting. I pray that I'm wrong. But if they have any pride at all, they should consider their place in history. Do they want to be patriots, or shills for the Democrat Party?
Biden and Palin recieved votes and would thus be eligible for the Electoral College.
The state of Florida’s ballot application does too. But I have not found a copy of the form that Obama had to fill in and sign. It must be public record, but have not found it yet.
Why didn’t the Clintons bring this out in the primaries? Because it would have made BO look sympathetic — Hillary would have lost a lot of the black vote (who would have just stayed home), and thus the election. Then the law would simply have been changed for 2012, allowing BO to win on the basis that he had been “robbed” last time.
The better play was to let BO run, maybe lose — but if he won *then* let it be revealed, so he will become persona non grata for puttimg the country thru this.
Hillary is counting on being such a FAB-ulous president, that everyone will forget all the silliness that got her there, and then when she is re-elected, all will be legitimized fully.
“If Obama was born in Hawaii then he’s eligible to be president, it’s as simple as that.” Very amusing, and no, it’s not that simple. If there were no Indonesian connection, no adoption by an Indonesain citizen named Soetoro, no possible applications for college and college funding using an assertion of ‘other’ citizenship than American, and no trip to Pakistan on some passport not available to an American at the time, then you would be correct. But you chose to take the Obama kneepad approach, ignoring all other aspects of this controversy. Do you expect an appointment in the obamanation’s administration?
“It would seem to me that if BO is declared not elgible, Bella Pelosi would assume POTUS.”
Speaker of the House is third in line. If Obama and Biden end up being sworn into office, and then Obama is disqualified, Biden would become President. Only if something happened to Biden would Pelosi become President.
“I believe the Justices will fully hear Leo Donofrio’s case and in voting on Friday to hear the case they will order an immediate stay. That will put a hold on the Electoral College vote until a ruling is made. I may be wrong, but that is the way I see it.
You earlier stated the 14th Amendment would apply to Obama which would make him a natural born citizen.
The way I see it, it would make him a citizen, but not “natural born”. The definition of “natural born” is still under question but I still believe it is someone born of parents who are both US citizens and born on US soil. Not just one or the other, but both in order to hold the Office of President.”
I THINK THEY WILL STAY THE EC TOO - UNTIL THIS IS RESOLVED ...
As for “natural born” - I agree, and I think this is the crux of Donofrio’s arguement.
“Natural born” is not defined - anywhere, but I believe that it is a COMBINATION of two (2) rights of citizenship:
1. Jus Soli: (of the soil). If you are born on U.S. soil, you are a “citizen”.
2. Jus Sanguinis: (of the blood). You derive your citizenship from your father - you are a “citizen” of his country.
A “natural born” citizen possesses BOTH Jus Soli AND Jus Sanguinis ...
~~PINGing the list for this one. Other thread pulled.
###
pissant: please ping me for articles on this.
I disagree with your claim that Obama's electors would be ruled ineligible. In 1872, Horace Greeley died after the election but before the Electoral College met. His electors were not ruled ineligible. They merely voted for several other Democrats, only one of whom had been on the ballot. If Obama is ruled ineligible there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits his electors from still casting their votes for him. Or for Biden, or another Democrat. All that can come out of that is the election will go to the House who will pick a Democrat since they control 26 or 27 of the congressional delegations.
“Just wait for all the criminals that are jailed because of something Obama signed into law come forward and say that want to see his birth certificate.
Last night Donofrio said that South carolina election committee is demanding proof that Obamanazi is eligibe”
Yeah - I listened to Leo last night ...
BTW, there ARE people currently jailed WHO MIGHT have grounds to REVERSE their convictions, IF OBAMA’s work eligibility IS NOT verified.
The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 MANDATES that ALL employees work eligibility be verified. Usually with Driver’s License, SS Card, AND BC.
IF YOU HAVE GOTTEN A JOB SINCE 1986 - YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN ...
Anyway, there have been some employers recently jailed and/or fined for NOT CHECKING ILLEGALS work eligibility.
NO ONE (EXCEPT CERTAIN DOMESTIC HOUSE WORKERS) IS EXEMPT - NOT EVEN POTUS !!!
POTUS IS A FEDERAL JOB AND HAS A “NATURAL BORN” CITIZENSHIP REQUIREMENT AS WELL ...
If they DO NOT check Obama’s work eligibility, these employers COULD CLAIM 14th Amendment Equal Protection violations AND get their convictions tossed ...
Yes, actually, it is.
If there were no Indonesian connection, no adoption by an Indonesain citizen named Soetoro, no possible applications for college and college funding using an assertion of ‘other’ citizenship than American, and no trip to Pakistan on some passport not available to an American at the time, then you would be correct.
And none of that means a thing if Obama was born in Hawaii as he claims. If he was then he's a natural born U.S. citizen and eligible to be elected president.
But you chose to take the Obama kneepad approach, ignoring all other aspects of this controversy.
And you go on grasping at straws unsupported by any rule of law or Constitutional provision I'm aware of. We'll see which of us is right in the end.
Do you expect an appointment in the obamanation’s administration?
No, I expect the Constitution and the rule of law to win out. Two subjects you seem to have only a passing understanding of.
“If it is found that Obama is a fraud, that his placement on the ballot is fraudulent — would not then Biden’s “votes” be rejected, since no one voted separately for Biden, rather every vote was for the pair Obama-Biden?”
I think his ORIGINAL electors would be tossed, but he WOULD STILL be eligible ... then the Senate votes, per the 12th Amendment, from the 2 highest vote getters for VP (Biden and Palin). He would win something like 58-42 ...
Just an extra step in the process for Biden ...
No doubt and understood.
Would the Electors been selected as they were if Obama had not run assuming his candidacy was based on fraud?
If his candidacy was fraudulent then so were the results...and thus the selection of the electors should be called into question...and that is my question!
"If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; "
So you would agree with Donofrio that McCain is ineligible to be president?
“I disagree with your claim that Obama’s electors would be ruled ineligible. In 1872, Horace Greeley died after the election but before the Electoral College met. His electors were not ruled ineligible. They merely voted for several other Democrats, only one of whom had been on the ballot. If Obama is ruled ineligible there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits his electors from still casting their votes for him. Or for Biden, or another Democrat. All that can come out of that is the election will go to the House who will pick a Democrat since they control 26 or 27 of the congressional delegations.”
This is A BIT of a different situtation ...
You are speaking of an ELIGIBLE candidate dying BEFORE the EC ...
In this case, I agree - they are free to vote WHOM THEY PLEASE, since they are released from their pledge.
THEIR ELECTION TO THE EC WAS NOT BASED UPON A FRAUD ...
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