Posted on 12/01/2008 6:04:32 AM PST by pissant
Controversy continues to surround President-elect Barack Obama's eligibility to serve as president, and a case involving his birth certificate waits for its day before the U.S. Supreme Court. A constitutional lawyer said were it to be discovered that Mr. Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen, it would have grave consequences for the nation.
According to the Constitution, a president must be a natural born citizen of the U.S. Mr. Obama's critics have failed to force him legally to produce his original birth certificate, and Mr. Obama has resisted any attempt to make him do so. Currently, only Hawaii Department of Health officials have access to Mr. Obama's original records.
Some of Mr. Obama's critics have said he was born in Kenya and have claimed he is a citizen of Kenya, Indonesia, or even a British subject.
Edwin Vieira, a constitutional lawyer who has practiced for 30 years and holds four degrees from Harvard, said if it were to be discovered Mr. Obama were not eligible for the presidency, it would cause many problems. They would be compounded if his ineligibility were discovered after he had been in office for a period of time.
"Let's assume he wasn't born in the U.S.," Mr. Vieira told The Bulletin. "What's the consequence? He will not be eligible. That means he cannot be elected validly. The people and the Electoral College cannot overcome this and the House of Representatives can't make him president. So what's the next step? He takes the oath of office, and assuming he's aware he's not a citizen, then it's a perjured oath."
Any appointments made by an ineligible president would have to be recalled, and their decisions would be invalidated.
(Excerpt) Read more at thebulletin.us ...
I believe it is strongly possible that if SCOTUS rules on Obama being ineligible and the DNC instructs the electors to vote for him anyway, the Congress would certify the results claiming they have the final say on eligibility.
The 20th Amendment applies regardless. Whether the electors are free to vote otherwise should Obama be found to be ineligible depends in part on state laws. I don't see that happening by the 15th. The Berg case isn't going to move that fast, and even if the court agrees to hear the case being reviewed on Friday then there still isn't enough time to schedule a full blown hearing. If Obama is found to be ineligible then it'll happen after that.
Nope it would go the Bella Polosi! IMHO
Ping.
That's a good one.
What happens to ‘natural born citizen’ status when one becomes a citizen of a nation that does not allow dual citizenship?
And...if the Hawai’i Department of Health (or whoever is in cahoots with Zero) happens to realize what’s about to go down, what’s to say they won’t transfer it to a more secure location, or, if all else fails, BURN the offending document? “Nothing to see, so nothing to prove!” (Twisted, I know, but likely the way they’ll be talking.)
A good tactician has to consider ALL the possibilities.
I believe the Justices will fully hear Leo Donofrio’s case and in voting on Friday to hear the case they will order an immediate stay. That will put a hold on the Electoral College vote until a ruling is made. I may be wrong, but that is the way I see it.
You earlier stated the 14th Amendment would apply to Obama which would make him a natural born citizen.
The way I see it, it would make him a citizen, but not “natural born”. The definition of “natural born” is still under question but I still believe it is someone born of parents who are both US citizens and born on US soil. Not just one or the other, but both in order to hold the Office of President.
It will have to be a perfect forgery and the perfect crime, the Rats haven't been able to pull that off too successfully. They try like hell with the aid of their accomplices in the MSM, but the truth always surfaces.
Okay...
In November, the citizens (and I am sure a few illegal aliens) did not vote for the president. We do not vote for presidents. Instead we voted for electors. The US Constitution directs that electors will be selected as the state’s legislatures’ decide. All states now choose electors via popular vote because the legislatures in the various states have decided this is the method they wanted to use to select the electors.
When we cast our votes, we are actually casting our votes for a slate of electors, chosen by the party of the candidate that we “voted” for.
Obama has not yet been elected president. Only the electors loyal to him have been selected. Obama is not president, or even president elect yet. He can be president elect until he is elected in mid December.
In Dec (on the 15th) the electors cast their votes. The votes are sealed and deliver to the President of the Senate by 24 Dec and counted by a joint session of Congress on the 6th of Jan (the 8th this election for some reason). Everyone knows who is going to win because the electors selected by the parties are extreme party loyalists.
If Obama is declared ineligible before the electors cast their votes, then the electors could simply not vote for him. Since the majority of electors are democRAT loyalists, it is extremely unlikely they would say, “Hey lets vote for the republican.” That ain’t gonna happen.
Instead, the electors would likely vote for either Biden (God help us) or Hillary. They are not bound by law (except in a few states) to vote for the popular vote winner in their state. They can legally vote for whom they want, but being party loyalists, they are not going to vote for the opposition.
If Obama is declared ineligible after the 15th of Dec, then it is likely the electorial college would have to meet again to re-vote, but their will not be another national election. The national election was to choose the Electoral College which has been done.
If Obama is ineligible and the Electoral College has not chosen a president, Biden would act as President until a President was qualified.
The 20th amendment details the issues if Obama is “elected” by the electoral college but cannot take the oath.
If he is ineligible and he has already been sworn in, he would be removed and Biden would ascend to the presidency.
McCain lost this election and will not be president.
This is exactly right. If they can find the right to "privacy" to promote abortions, they can, and will, make up anything they want, regardless of what the Constitution actually says (or does not say).
Oncde the vault copy is opened, the state of Hawai’i may still have control over the physical document and it may never leave their grasp thus authentication beyond Fukino’s word may be impossible. I cannot think of a legal precedent which would force the state of Hawai’i to present the document for expert authentication.
But, but, I thought Obama *was* a Constitutional law scholar?!? He said he was...
Thanks LucyT.
And I disagree. But we'll find out sooner or later, perhaps as early as next week.
You earlier stated the 14th Amendment would apply to Obama which would make him a natural born citizen. The way I see it, it would make him a citizen, but not “natural born”. The definition of “natural born” is still under question but I still believe it is someone born of parents who are both US citizens and born on US soil. Not just one or the other, but both in order to hold the Office of President.
The definition should not be under question since federal law and Supreme Court cases have both established it. One of the reasons why I don't believe the Court will find Donofrio's arguements persuasive. For them to agree with Donofrio, or you, would mean Obama and McCain are both ineligible, and could make it hard for any candidate to establish credentials. Giuliani, for example, would have to prove that his grandparents on both sides were naturalized citizens before his mother and father were both born, otherwise they are not U.S. citizens. And if they are not U.S. citizens then Giuliani is not a U.S. citizen. The arguements would be endless.
You know I’ve said this a few times on this site.I still can’t understand why the Clintons didnt discover this or insist on this prior to the nomination
It's not in the Constitution, go read election law.
RE :”This will NEVER go away unless it is resolved”
I dont care if it goes away, so far it’s not well known. I am just saying Bush vs Gore was over a very close election 2000 and it caused endless complaints of over-ruling the public. Obama had a much larger win so Supreme Court will not want to over-rule a much larger electoral win. And what would they possibly do to remedy it? Appoint McCain? Re-election without Obama? Can you imagine a 5-4 ruling along party lines? Not a pretty situation, imaginary as it is.
Mr. Viera is a really bright guy. He has his undergrad, grad, JD and PhD from Harvard with honors.
I am sure he did not seal his academic records like you know who. Harvard is known for giving others degrees for just showing up and this info is from people I know who were graduates. After reading the pot smokers “poetry” to Franklin Marshall David the pedophile, I think the poet would barely make it through most community colleges.
RE :”The civil rights movement came about because blacks had a legitimate case to make that the US was not living up to the principles and the text of the Constitution”
Actually the liberal history goes that the constitution is racist and sexist and liberal judges freed the blacks (from inequality) based on an evolving constitution. What is nice about this revision is it gives a moral rational for unlimited liberal judicial power. As Whoopie Goldberg said to John McCain, your justices would re-impose slavery, McCain’s response? “I understand that’s a concern”, did that guy believe in anything?
One vote per state IIRC.
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