Lies In The Wind

11/21/08 | knowseverything

[Red Badger]

Kansas
Dust In The Wind lyrics

I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment’s gone
All my dreams, pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind, all they are is dust in the wind

Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind.
Oh________________

Don’t hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away, all your money won’t another minute buy

Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind, everything is dust in the wind (everything is dust in the wind)

[Oldexpat]

This is pretty much how I see it and explain it to non-tech friends. People aren’t convinced that costs=energy. That is a system costs more to build and maintain then it probably is consuming more energy than most think.
A lot of the studies on the cost of Wind power don’t include the additional distribution costs and losses, nor the true life cycle costs of the turbines. The blades are made mostly of petroleum..how long do they last? They consume power just to stand still.
The utilities just want to comply with the laws and get things in their rates and pass the costs along.

[Presbyterian Reporter]

Thanks for taking the time to write this.

All too often the American public is sold a bill of goods and then regrets the purchase later.

Alternative energy sources all have their own problems and until we deal with those problems using sound economic principles, the money spent will be wasted.

Given the rocky economic times we find ourselves, wasting resources is not a good idea for our future financial health.

I am hopeful some entrepenurial folks would begin tackling the major issues you have presented and start to think outside the envelope for solutions that are economic solutions and not government subsidized solutions.

It seems we have become a society that wants to first look to government for a handout instead of using our God-given creative powers to find economic solutions to problems.

[RC2]

You expect politicians in California to tell you the truth? All they are interested in is getting elected. They really don’t care what happens. The only way I see out of this is for a small home electric generation system. Like small generators that are extremely efficient.

[The Great RJ]

I understand the Germans and Danes, who were pioneers in windmill generating technology, have stopped building wind turbines for these very reasons. Wind turbines like corn ethanol plants are just feel good boondoggles that waste money and do not solve our energy needs. I fully expect that under President Obama we will be dealing with frequent brownouts and blackouts as well as skyrocketing electricity costs.

[bert]

.......They break and cost a lot of money to fix .....

Thanks for this comprehensive piece.

In May 2007 I traveled north from Colorado into Wyoming thence west in to Idaho and onward to Oregon. Early on I ran into large wind farms of 25 or more wind mills. I counted them just to get a feel.

I noticed from the outset there were always some not working. I began to count them as well. In Idaho,on the Snake river plain, I got off the hiway and actually drove several miles to the farm and got a close up look of both working and non working units.

The bottom line is that averaged over numerous sites spread across hundreds of miles, about 10% of the units in each farm were inoperative. It seems to me that in addition to the numbers mentioned above for each unit, you can subtract an additional 10% or so from the aggregate farm number for inoperatve units.

[Freelance Warrior]

The green idea isn't about the cheapest soution, it's about reducing amounts of gaseus garbage being dumped into the atmosphere (mainly CO2).

The wind-generated electricity can be used to extract the CO2 from the air and make out of it some useful chemical substances (like trees do). In this cases the AC use peaks aren't important.

Just treat this process like usual garbage collection routinely performed in every community. In this case a similar financing of the process is rational. Now no-one is dumping steel shaving across the fence of a factory, why treat CO2 differently?.

[RetiredArmy]

And everyone thought the Marxist Dimocrats were not going to lie? Everything and everyone on the left lives and exists on a mountain of lies. They would not know the truth if you wrote the word TRUTH on a baseball bat and smacked them across the forehead with it. Everyone on the green side lies. Everyone on the socialist side lies. This bunch coming into Washington in January has its entire existence based upon lies, deceit and BS. Obama could be standing on the stage and showing us live moving pictures and I still would not believe it. I would be expecting it was all Wag The Dog type crap. I don’t believe them. I don’t trust them with my LIFE, My Country, or My Money!!! I do not like them. I will never like them. Simply, too this old soldier, THEY ARE THE ENEMY WITHIN. WE have been invaded within. And folks, thanks to our inept leadership on this side, we are losing. It is a guerrilla war now.

[bert]

Yours was a religious statement based on faith and not science or economics.

In Islam, the belief is women must cover their heads and maybe their faces.

In Green, we must eliminate CO2

Both are irrationsl

[Ditto]

Very good summation of the problems and waste the AWG insanity is causing on the generation side. I'd also suggest you review this latest NERC report on the North American bulk power system. Reliability Impacts of Climate Change Initiatives

If Obama try even half of the hair brained stuff he promised in the campaign, the grid is going down.

[Freelance Warrior]

In Green, we must eliminate CO2

Nope, we mustn't eliminate CO2. We must keep its amount at reasonable levels in all the atmosphere.

[bert]

You have no clue as to what is reasonable. Kill it all, eliminate man.....that’s the reasonable answer. Religious hogwash

[Freelance Warrior]

You have no clue as to what is reasonable.

A good point. Probably keeping the CO2 ratio in air of a big city's downtown similar to the ratio in the country is the answer?

[white17x]

So lets plant more trees instead of pursuing this windfarm boondoggle.

[Dan(9698)]

10% of the units in each farm were inoperative.

The subsidies are for building them. Maintaining them is a cost that is not subsidized. If one quits and it is going to be expensive to fix, they just build another because it is subsidized.

Another reason they don't all run at the same time is there is not sufficient capacity in the power line that takes the power away.

In the Evanston Wyoming area, only about 25% are running at one time. They are a different 25% at different times, but that shows it is not because of mechanical failure.

It would take a fairly major power line to take 4 megawatts, and the power line that is there is not that big, nor is the substation that takes the power and connects it to the line.

[steelyourfaith]

 

Beam me to Planet Gore !

[bert]

....nly about 25% are running at one time.....

That is even worse and means they have negative capital efficiency. If they can’t run they can’t amortize the capitalization and the project has negative return.

[Islander7]

When you confront liberals and leftists with facts you only enrage them.

The 'renewable' energy myth is nothing more than snake oil. People have been fed so many lies on this subject, they will believe anything except the truth.

0bama will solve all our problems. Get with the program.

RENEWABLE ENERGY SOURCES



As Table 1 shows, renewable energy technologies account for 6 percent of U.S. primary energy consumption.

What is surprising about the relatively small role that renewable energies play in our energy economy is the large measure of taxpayer dollars that they have received. Since 1970, renewable technologies have received over $20 billion in federal government subsidies to spur their development and market application.[33] Despite this largesse, they have been unable to compete economically with far cheaper and more reliable options such as coal and nuclear power. Of all renewable technologies, wind and solar receive the most attention from the public, despite their fairly dismal performance. Taken together, wind and solar today account for just one-fifth of 1 percent of America’s annual energy consumption.

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[YouGoTexasGirl]

Another cost that needs to be factored in is the “leasing” cost. I hear that each mill is bringing around $1,000 per year plus “royalties”! In west Texas I’ve heard that farmers are supplementing their income with mill farms. Driving through this summer it was interesting seeing the number of farms that have popped up in TWO years! Also, it was interesting to see miles of empty fields with windmills and oil pumps...and wondering if the poor farmers were also getting USDA farm subsidies.