The Coming "War" Between the Obama Administration and the Catholic Church

WASHINGTON, November 19, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The possible signing of the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) by President-Elect Barack Obama would be "the equivalent of a war" an unnamed senior Vatican official recently told TIME magazine.

The startling comments make the second time this week that a Vatican official has forthrightly and in the strongest language condemned Obama's extreme policies on abortion. Speaking at the Catholic University of America a few days ago, Vatican Cardinal James Stafford labeled Obama's anti-life policies as "aggressive, disruptive, and apocalyptic," also noting that, "On November 4, 2008, America suffered a cultural earthquake" (see coverage: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111703.html).

With Catholic, but outspokenly pro-abortion individuals occupying two prominent positions (Joseph Biden as vice president and Tom Daschle as Health and Human Services Secretary) the specter of public excommunication or denial of communion for prominent members of the Obama Administration has arisen.

The focus of the Vatican’s concern, FOCA, is a bill that would do away with state laws on abortion, including laws mandating parental involvement, or banning partial birth abortion. FOCA would also compel taxpayer funding of abortions, and, of greatest concern to Bishops, would force faith-based hospitals and healthcare facilities to perform abortions.

Obama has in the past said that he would make signing FOCA one of the highest priorities of his presidency.

Last week at the meeting of US Bishops in Baltimore, Cybercast News Service asked Chicago Cardinal Francis George, the current president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, if voting for FOCA would bring a penalty of automatic excommunication for Catholic politicians. The Cardinal did not rule it out.

"The excommunication is automatic if that act is in fact formal cooperation, and that is precisely what would have to be discussed once you would see the terms of the act itself," responded Cardinal George. When asked for more, he added: "The categories in moral theology about cooperating in evil, which make you complicit in the evil even though you don't do it yourself, are material cooperation, which is usually remote and therefore doesn't involve you in the moral action except in a very auxiliary and minor way, and formal cooperation, which would involve you even though you are not doing it, in the way that makes you culpable.

"So we would have to take a look at each case, and at each law, to determine whether or not the cooperation is material or formal. We've never done that."

Cardinal George has, however, personally analyzed FOCA and expressed his grave concerns about the legislation. In a message to the Obama Administration at the end of the USCCB meeting George wrote on FOCA, saying it would, "outlaw any ‘interference’ in providing abortion at will. It would deprive the American people in all fifty states of the freedom they now have to enact modest restraints and regulations on the abortion industry. FOCA would coerce all Americans into subsidizing and promoting abortion with their tax dollars. It would counteract any and all sincere efforts by government and others of good will to reduce the number of abortions in our country."

The Cardinal added: "FOCA would have an equally destructive effect on the freedom of conscience of doctors, nurses and health care workers whose personal convictions do not permit them to cooperate in the private killing of unborn children. It would threaten Catholic health care institutions and Catholic Charities." (see coverage: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111209.html )

In light of this possible attempt to revoke conscience rights under the Obama administration, Catholic League president Bill Donohue has urged President Bush to enact regulations, already in draft for months, which would protect the rights of doctors, nurses and health workers from being discriminated against if they refuse to perform or assist in abortions, as well as other morally contentious procedures. "At stake are the religious rights of these professionals," said Donohue.

"To put it differently, were FOCA to become law (it needs to be reintroduced in the House), the culture war that the Vatican official was referring to would come to a boiling point," he warned. "In practical terms, this would mean the closure of every Catholic hospital in the nation: No bishop is going to stand by and allow the federal government to dictate what medical procedures must be performed in Catholic hospitals. Make no mistake about it, the bishops would shut down Catholic hospitals before acquiescing in the intentional killing of an innocent child. Were this to happen, it would not only cripple the poor, it would cripple the Obama administration."

Donohue concluded: "It is for reasons like these that the Catholic League urges President Bush to move with dispatch in instituting rules protecting the religious rights of all health care workers. If Obama wants to undo them, it will set up a confrontation he will surely regret."

See the TIME article:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1859856,00.htm...

See the Cybercast News article:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14369

To: all the best

In this we are in agreement, life comes first. Term limits and financial gain from lobbyists are the only way to end the corruption on the hill. Here is what I see as some possible solutions to the problem

1. Term limits to one or two terms

2. 0 dollars can be earmarked or lobbied for on the hill, lobbyists should be limited to the same methods to speak to congress as we are, phone, fax, email ONLY to plead their case

3. Each congresscritter gets a salary equal to the state they represents median income. That way, they are incentivized to raise their states standard of living if they want more cha ching.

4. The state they represent should purchase a home in DC for USE of each congresscritter while representing us, like the pres and vp have. No “special interest or lobbyist influence there.

5. Congresscritters should not be able to profit from their time on the hill for at least 2 years after serving. Should be a cap to the amount they can make on speeches and the like if capitalizing on their time in congress.

6. Public funds for campaigns ONLY, no more of this 1 billion dollar election crap

7.Full vetting of all candidates, presidential and otherwise in an easy to read format available to all constituents

8. Full disclosure for all candidates MANDATORY and in an easy to read format for all state local and national elections run by the Supervisors of Elections. Disclosure of all positions on things like gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, illegal immigration, and tax positions. A questionnare could be assembled and required of all who run.

9. Each state would vote on an appropriate “ expenditure” budget for what they feel would be proper representation for example, travel allowance, clothing allowance, entertainment allowance etc. that the representative would recieve to properly represent the state they came from ( I forgot to add that underneath the salary part, as I know they do have abnormal expenses for the job and they should not come out of pocket. They would however, learn real quick to live within a budget themselves, which might help them to learn to create and stick to a balanced one in Washington)

Sorry this is so long, and your point well taken, but most of America will not take the time, or even have the ability to vet these candidates, so more severe restrictions placed on Washington is the only way to keep the corruption somewhat at bay. I know that with all the information and misinformation flying around, and the 24 hour news cycle, even my head was spinning this year, and I am a political junkie!
I truly believe that keeping the payscale at bay in the way I mentioned above would also disuade money hungry career politicians from running and let more regular joes with some common sense and a true concern for others get in the game.

181 posted on 11/20/2008 12:56:19 PM PST by wombtotomb (since its "above his paygrade", why can't we err on the side of caution about when life begins?)

Return to the Spoils System so the corruption is open and can be identified. And before term Limits or anything else that won’t reduce the unelected government’s power over the nation, how about getting some real reform and repealing this:

Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act (1882)

182 posted on 11/20/2008 1:17:30 PM PST by mick

To: OriginalChristian

Female “pastoral associates” are notoriously liberal; they all believe women should be ordained.

I attended Mass at the neighboring parish the Sunday after the election, and the pastor lauded the election of BHO during his homily. Afterwards, I witnessed a parishioner speaking with him apparently voicing her concerns, and he replied, “Yes, I understand there are moral issues, but.... this was a victory for equality, justice, etc..... blablabla.”

Imagine a priest arguing down one of the faithful on Morals vs. “Social Justice!!!” But that is exactly the L.A. mindset.

183 posted on 11/20/2008 2:08:58 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Don' need no steenkin' bipartisan..... Oops, have I failed to be "gracious" AGAIN?!!)

Oh, they don’t get money from me. I brought a bag of pull tabs for the kids’ Ronald McDonald project. That was my donation:-)

184 posted on 11/20/2008 2:11:07 PM PST by La Enchiladita (Don' need no steenkin' bipartisan..... Oops, have I failed to be "gracious" AGAIN?!!)

To: cpforlife.org

Except that 52% of self identified Catholics voted for Obama.

185 posted on 11/20/2008 4:37:50 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)

What happened is that ACORN is in this state big, we have a Dem state government that is pretty bad, and the unions hated McCain for being a “free trader”.

Ethanol didn’t help, but most guys saw that it was going down with the corn prices anyway.

186 posted on 11/20/2008 4:39:13 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)

“Pius found a way to excuse himself from failing to speak out against fascism and the holocaust, so why should Benedict be different when it comes to abortion?”

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge_en.html

The idea that the Pius was in on it with Hitler or whatever was the creation of Soviet Agitprop in the 60’s. Read paragraph 4 of the above encyclical, delivered to Germany in 1937 by Pope Pius. William L. Shrier's book isn't addressed directly at this issue--as it wasn't dreamed of when he wrote it--but does shed a lot of light on the relation of church and state in general in Nazi Germany.

Pope Benedict already HAS spoken out against abortion at every opportunity, in Mexico, in Brazil, in the US, etc. Just as he spoke, as Cardinal Ratzinger, against “liberation theology” years ago and as a Vatican official basically banished it. I'm not a Catholic, so I might have this wrong, but it is my impression that each diocese is supposed to run mostly on its own and that the Vatican is not inclined to micromanage dioceses. Only if a diocses fails to properly deal with a grave mater after a time would it tend to intervene--the big bad church is too authoritarian and then even worse for not being authoritarian enough.

In closing, a word of wisdom: "To remedy these wrongs the socialists, working on the poor man's envy of the rich, are striving to do away with private property, and contend that individual possessions should become the common property of all, to be administered by the State or by municipal bodies. They hold that by thus transferring property from private individuals to the community, the present mischievous state of things will be set to rights, inasmuch as each citizen will then get his fair share of whatever there is to enjoy. But their contentions are so clearly powerless to end the controversy that were they carried into effect the working man himself would be among the first to suffer. They are, moreover, emphatically unjust, for they would rob the lawful possessor, distort the functions of the State, and create utter confusion in the community." Written in 1891 by Pope Leo, sounds like a speech by Reagan.

187 posted on 11/20/2008 6:17:58 PM PST by Jacob Morgan

To: Jacob Morgan

You can skip all the verbiage. Simply put, I never said Pius was “in on it.” What I said was, that Pius lived through the war, when better men than him died fighting. Yeah he got lot’s of accolades from the Jews, because they didn’t risk their asses either. For my part, the soldier who risked his neck on Omaha beach or at Anzio or anywhere else in the war, did more than Pius, because they actually fought against the enemy. Then, after the war, when it is safe, Pius threatens to excommunicate Italian Catholics who vote Communist. Seems to me he shuts up when his ass is on the line, and talks big when he is safe. That equals cowardice in my book. YMMV.

188 posted on 11/20/2008 6:43:18 PM PST by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)

Petronski: it’s true, so why shouldn’t it be said. Catholics in large numbers voted for a pro-choice candidate. V’s wife.

189 posted on 11/20/2008 7:30:53 PM PST by ventana

Good post! V’s wife.

190 posted on 11/20/2008 7:32:39 PM PST by ventana

What’s true?

Exit polling is scientifically flawed.

191 posted on 11/20/2008 7:51:21 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)

The exit polling closely followed election results this year as I understood them. V’s wife.

192 posted on 11/20/2008 7:58:09 PM PST by ventana

there WILL NOT be two additional pro-abortion justices, there is a difference.

I hope you are right, but I wouldn't bet on it.

193 posted on 11/20/2008 10:48:32 PM PST by Flying Circus

The exit polling closely followed election results this year as I understood them.

People believe what they want to believe.

194 posted on 11/20/2008 11:20:44 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)

Except that 52% of self identified Catholics voted for Obama.

Nope, not quite.

195 posted on 11/20/2008 11:21:44 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)

To: Jacob Morgan

It’s hopeless. Don’t waste your time with this guy. Facts and argument mean nothing. He just likes talking to himself.

196 posted on 11/21/2008 4:58:45 AM PST by mick

Exit polls are not articles of faith, my dear. V’s wife.

197 posted on 11/22/2008 5:18:05 PM PST by ventana

This is why I reject them, sweetums.

198 posted on 11/22/2008 5:19:38 PM PST by Petronski (For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden. -- Cdl. Stafford)

199 posted on 11/22/2008 9:02:50 PM PST by Salvation ( Â†With God all things are possible.Â†)

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