Posted on 10/29/2008 9:35:59 PM PDT by TheFourthMagi
Video here. Feel the edge of electric excitement as you get to stand in the shoes of good Pennsylvania people welcoming political phenomenon Sarah Palin.
The above is C_of_D's original post. It is clear from her post and the reply of Columbo's to which she responded, she was agreeing with Columbo there is little room for disagreement about issues among some groups in the party. She was not agreeing with his opinion about homosexuality.
You are plenty bright enought to understand what she wrote. It is very dishonest of you to play the "gotcha" game, and then attempt to mischaracterize her opinion on homosexuality in an effort to rile up other posters.
Just as a caveat, I agree with you on the homosexual issue (except for calling them queers, which sounds bigoted - one is more effective when one doesn't sound bigoted) and I can't stand Barry Goldwater.
I want to amend my previous response.
I wrote: “Please note that I did not come into this thread to talk about gay adoption. I was asked about the two percent, and I responded. I should have seen that the question was not asked honestly, but was only a prelude to baiting.”
I should have said, “I should have seen that some would not take the response in earnest, but use it as fodder to bait.”
ArrogantBustard expressed his views clearly and without attacking me after I responded to his question. I appreciated that.
Second, as a proponent of homosexual adoption, you are aligned with the Log Cabin Republicans no matter what your sex or marital status;
Third, you need to add that moniker (LCR) to your 'status' on FR, as you have earned it;
Fourth, I fully understand that you didn't come on this thread to talk about homosexual adoption. You came on here to talk trash about Sarah Palin being McCain's pick. Only when pressed as to why you felt that way did it come to light that the reason was, Sarah is a devout Christian. In other words, she is totally against the homosexual lifestyle which you consider "hatefulness and intolerance".
Fifth, the question was asked honestly, not as bait. It was your honest answer that has this entire tempest brewing.
Sixth, McCain is not going to lose on Tuesday. He cheated Hillary out of her nomination and by hell or high water, her supporters are going to help us crush this Marzist, Barack Hussein Obama.
Seventh, and last, I am not targeting anybody that is trying to figure out what is going wrong. I am targeting YOU! You, and all the rest of the conservatives that have fallen off the conservative bus.
No one supporting, aiding or abetting the homosexual lifestyle belongs on this forum.
Now this is just my opinion but maybe we can get the owner to chime in.
Nope, I haven’t fallen off the conservative bus. I am trying to rescue it from those who attempt to hijack it and save all the seats. :)
I’m a pretty traditional Catholic and I have known several gay people. I do believe that some people are born homosexual and exhibit the tendency from a very early age. I also think some people choose to live that lifestyle.
I don’t know what God thinks of the homosexuals He created that way— but I know He requires them to refrain from homosexual actions. That is the particular cross they must bear their whole lives. He sends each of us a serious cross to bear our whole lives. That’s just one type.
Some people are seduced into the gay lifestyle because a gay person is the first person who has every shown a real interest in them. And some people choose to live the gay life because they open their souls to evil.
I believe, as Catholics, we must state that homosexual acts are always wrong and condemn them; but we must refrain from condemning the person. Only God condemns people. If we do that, we are making the same mistake the pharisees made. And Christ seemed to think that was a pretty bad mistake.
As far as gay adoption goes, I have rarely met a truly happy gay person. Most seem pretty unhappy and THAT should eliminate them as adoptive parents. I have known adopted children raised by alcoholics, mean people, or unhappy people and the toll is awful on the adopted child. We put children in unhappy situations and they grow up very hurt and damaged. Some people are just not cut out to be happy, well adjusted parents. They should concentrate their talents elsewhere.
Lastly, if a person really feels he or she was born gay, it must be a very difficult burden to bear; but it must be borne. I’ve had an artificial leg since I was 7; it must be borne. More than borne, it must be lived with well to allow as wonderful, happy, and full a life as possible. Christ sent me a cross and it would be harder to bear it if people hated me for the cross I was sent. I don’t believe we should hate gay people for the cross they were sent. We should respect those who bear it with dignity and celibacy. We should view those who don’t with pity and concern.
I have not read the thread, but am simply responding to a ping.
Children need mothers and fathers.
Of course, sometimes they lose one or the other. That’s a different issue.
Children desperately need normalcy, though, and a homosexual environment does not offer them that.
***********************
Amen, FRiend. We must view them with love.
May God bless us all.
I have not read the thread, but am simply responding to a ping.
Children need mothers and fathers.
Of course, sometimes they lose one or the other. That’s a different issue.
Children desperately need normalcy, though, and a homosexual environment does not offer them that.
That’s odd; just a few minutes ago I read your ping about Hussein boiler rooms, trolls, etc., and someone commented there and put up a list of trolls on FR—the poster of this(Thefourthmagi) was included!
lc, It is quite obvious that you are a person with a good heart. As a famous person once said, (and I paraphrase) anyone under thirty that is not liberal has no heart and anyone over thirty that is not conservative, has no brain.
You told us that you are Presbyterian. Last time I checked, that was still considered a Christian faith. Being Christian, it goes without saying that the faith is based on the Bible. There are no other words to establish such faith.
The Bible tells us clearly that homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of our God. To advocate placing innocent children into the midst of that abomination is to advocate the abomination itself. Actually, it's even worse.
Conservatives, not the Republican Party, live by conservative values. That includes fervent opposition to the homosexual agenda.
You HAVE fallen off the conservative bus. What you are trying to save is the Republican Party and you want the GOP to be with you. For the most part, it looks like they are.
This website is for CONSERVATIVES and conservative values. Any, and I mean ANY assistance to the homosexual agenda is not welcome for any reason.
That don't mean I don't love you.
***Sorry, this is my party, too, and I have a right to express my opinion here.***
Nope. We exist because of the sufferance of Jim Robinson and his moderators.
***The lesson of this election is that McCain would be winning today if he hadn’t picked Palin and alienated so many of the moderate voters he needs. It is precisely because you are losing people like me that we are probably going to lose this election.***
Have a nice time in your next political party. The moderates never sided with McCain - that was a crock created by the left in order to try to divide the party.
***I’m not an atheist, but I certainly would not talk about fellow human beings in the nasty, derisive tones you use. I’m Presbyterian, and the people in the church I have chosen do not spew derision on people of other faiths or people who have not found God.***
You haven’t been to the religious boards, have you?
***Are you really an admin moderator, or is that just a clever nick?***
Trying to make friends in high places?
***It makes me ill that McCain has pandered to the fundamentalists in opposing adoption by loving gay parents of children who desperately need homes.
I believe that homosexuality is genetic and not chosen, any more than eye color or skin color is chosen. I utterly reject the demonization of gay people that I often see on this site. It makes me ill that people who call themselves Christian would pre-judge the character and hearts of people they do not even know, and assume the terrible things about them that I have sometimes seen described on this site. The gay families I have known are loving and decent people who would sooner kill themselves than harm any child. They do not have sex in the living room in front of their children, and they are not out to “convert” anybody.
It breaks my heart to know that some people here would condemn these kids to a lifetime of state care, bouncing from foster home to foster home, just because of a potential parent’s sexual preference.***
Supposing that the sexual preference was incest, just not practiced in front of the children? Supposing it was dogs or sheep? Supposing that some other sort of preference such as Satanism? Supposing the preference was strapping bombs on one’s kids and sending them into a crowded market?
There is a huge difference between thinking of something and acting upon it. I might see an unattended pile of hundred dollar bills and want them, but that does not make me a thief until I actually take them.
I don’t believe that gay IS; I believe that gay DOES. Lindsay Lohan might confirm it.
***I invite ALL of the Catholic faith here to respond. Is homosexual adoption a good thing? Should we adopt Canticle_of_Deborah’s point of view here and applaud those who support the queer lifestyle? Speak up! Canticle_of_Deborah has. She apologized for us!***
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/index.htm
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/index.htm
Perhaps some literature might help, CoD.
***You are an embarrassment.
Pathetic.***
You called yourself a traditional Catholic. Can you show evidence?
Dominick, that's what this whole episode started over, ditching Palin because she belongs to the 'religious right'. A person advancing the homosexual agenda in order to preserve the Republican Party.
“The Bible tells us clearly that homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of our God.”
I want to touch on this a little bit. Bear with me through a seminary sidebar.
Most people point to Romans 1:26-27 in their Biblical criticism of homosexuality: “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet.”
There are two problems here.
First, these are the words of the apostle Paul. They are not the words of Jesus. They are not the words of God. Paul is a commentator and interpreter of the material found in the Gospels. The inclusion of the non-Gospel materials in the New Testament is primarily to provide commentary from an individual who was Jesus’s contemporary.
Second, if you look at a wider context of what Paul was writing about, he was condemning the religious activities of the Greeks, who mixed sexual behavior with their religious worship. Roll back to Romans 1:14: “I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.” He’s discussing the Greeks and their religious-sexual mixings.
Really, what it comes down to is this: do you believe that the writings of Paul of Tarsus are equivalent to Gospel? Furthermore, do you believe his condemnations in Romans 1 are of Greek religious practices or of homosexuality?
Those two questions alone have TONS of theology written about them - and I haven’t found a cut-and-dried conclusion.
When I’m in doubt, I turn to the words of Jesus, and he tells me in Mark 12:28-34 that the two most fundamental rules to live by are to love God with your whole heart and to love everyone as you love yourself.
His only comments on sexual relations was to condemn sexual relations outside of marriage, so I put adulterers in the same group as homosexuals.
Similarly, I have no problem whatsoever with any celibate relationship between any two people. And I also think that knowing what two people do together when they’re alone is a gross invasion of privacy. That’s for them and God alone to know, not me. And I see no reason not to love these people anyway, because that’s what Jesus teaches.
Should gay marriage be allowed? From a legal standpoint, I think that’s up to individual states to make that determination. I see no reason not to have a ballot initiative in every state to clarify the exact laws pertaining to this: is gay marriage allowed here? Does this state recognize gay marriages from other states?
Putting the question to the people is the democratic way of doing things. It’s the way of freedom. And that’s what I believe in.
Similarly, if there is a legal punishment against homosexuals, should there not also be a legal punishment against adulterers? After all, they’re both going against Jesus’s definition of what sexual relations should be.
From my study and prayers, that’s what I’ve figured out. I hope that people who disagree or who have come to different conclusions can respond maturely and without name-calling.
I agree with almost everything you say, but not with one.
People can be born with physical and personality traits that go against the norm. Boys can be sensitive and effeminate, girls can be masculine “tomboys”, but that doesn’t mean that they are homosexual.
Because of our justifiable fear of the illnesses, both physical and mental, that arise from the active practice of homosexuality, we tend to over-react to children who seem different from the norm, but that is a mistake.
Children in early adolescence often go through a period where they experiment with sexuality, but with their own sex, just because the other sex is so mysterious to them. They do grow out of this, left alone and not “labeled”.
But, what happens in this culture. where people get labeled so early? Do they get a chance to outgrow a natural stage, and develop into mature sexuality? Not if they get labeled at 12 or 13 years of age!
Sexual desire is normal for all human beings. We are different from animals in that we can choose when and under what circumstances we express that desire. Some ways are harmful to our long term health and happiness, and some are supportive.
We are obligated to tell the truth to others when challenged, without condemning them. Homosexual activity is destructive and unhealthy, and does not lead to a happy and productive life.
We need to be stronger when confronting those who demand that we accept abnormal and unhealthy behaviors. We do not condemn those who have aberrant desires, but we are obliged to condemn the active expression of these as socially destructive and wrong.
I often wonder, quietly, why homosexuals, who glorify their “gay” lifestyle as so wonderful, are so desperate to mimic the lifestyle of heterosexual married couples, and demand “equal rights”.
It couldn’t be that homosexuality in itself just doesn’t fill the void, and that these poor souls think that by imitating heterosexual married folk, they will feel better, more whole, less abnormal?
Homosexuality is not genetic. It is an aberration of the normal sexual drive God gave all of us, and we must choose to express it in ways that will contribute to our long term happiness. That means refraining from extra-marital temptations which are no better or worse than homosexual activities.
Homosexuals may want to adopt children, desire it greatly, be extremely depressed that they can’t have children, but they have no “rights” in this area.
Children have a natural right to a normal mother and father.
Unfortunately, these rights are not always respected by our sinful and misled liberal culture. It is one who can’t think beyond an individual’s immediate need for self-gratification to consider the higher social benefit of delayed or forgone self-gratification.
Palin is the reason why I'm voting the ticket.
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