Posted on 09/15/2008 10:58:51 AM PDT by Kevmo
The Washington Post article is already being commented upon here in Free Republic.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202414
The purpose of this thread is to help Freepers and lurkers decide upon what the best mode of self defense would be in the case of the breakdown in social order such as happened with the Rodney King riots.
Joe Brower owns one of the RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) ping lists. I tried to convince him to open this vanity because he and his friends are more knowledgeable about guns. He says, "there have already been threads on the subject you mention right here on FR, although I can't locate them now. Tell you what -- you start the thread and then ping me, and I'll then flag my RKBA list for comments. I'm sure some folks in that group would be able to provide links, as well as plenty of timely advice. "
This scenario is called the SHTF scenario, where the acronym stands for $#|+ Hits The Fan. So this will be the SHTF gun thread for November 2008... Of course, gun ownership isn't for everyone. But it is the most accessible safety measure under our constitution, which is as our founding fathers intended. Recall where the police were when the Rodney King riots started: they left the scene for their own safety. If that were to happen in your neighborhood, what is your plan?
Thanks for the redirect to #50. I think I only glanced through it because I do not live in a semi-rural setting.
If you live in a semi-rural setting, you might want to consider purchasing a .357 revolver and a lever action rifle in the same caliber (.357) with a 16 to 18 inch barrel so it is manageable inside a dwelling. And practice as often as possible. You can purchase beaucoups of .38 Special and .357 ammo and will have a pistol and rifle chambering the same ammo. If you can handle a .44 or .45 caliber handgun, you can get the rifles in those calibers as well. But the best homedefense weapon is a medium to short shotgun model in pump action with 1&3 duplex shells.
***Good points, which is where I’m headed with this. I just need to figure out how much ammunition is. I think I’m settled on a rifle + handgun of same ammunition. I intend to get a revolver for the handgun; I don’t trust automatic handguns, I’ve heard they jam too much. But semi-auto rifles seem to be pretty reliable.
Do rifles fire snakeshot? Would it ruin the rifling?
If you don’t live in a rural setting, why would you want snake shot? You don’t want to use that as anti-personnel rounds. And in large caliber rounds the shot is usually in a plastic covering.
No, you are not a wimp. Crazy perhaps and most certainly foolish.
Understand that I am not a medical tech nor a qualified doctor but I am going to say stay away from the 12 guage unless you have a means of gathering the recoil and spreading it across your chest without rupturing your sternum. A possible means would be to put a wide strap around your lower and mid chest that could be tightened to swing all recoil pressures to your abdomen and upper chest.
Perhaps a weightlifters belt or two (nylon or leather) might do the trick. Take the belt(s) in to see the Doc and ask him to evaluate it. If you have sternal plating forget the idea completely and forever.
Are you sure you don’t want to ask yourself if you would be making yourself much more susceptible to serious infections.
There is another way that’s much easier on the body, you know. Put the butt plate solidly against a wall or solid post and just use your hands to aim the shotgun.
I’ve heard of guys loading snake shot into pistols for the first 2 or 3 rounds, for short range. Why wouldn’t I want to use snakeshot as anti-personnel rounds? One of the considerations other freepers brought up was that the bullets would go through walls and hurt neighbors. Snakeshot probably can’t do that nearly as much.
Hang the sign on somebody elses property for a week before you put it on your own. You realize that the cops aren’t going to feel this compelling need to rush in to save someone they have already warned, don’t you? Why should they?
Well, if you get to within five feet of the perp, you might do more than piss him off with snake shot, but you won’t drop him. Your goal is to drop the bastards asap. If they die from their invasion of your home, so be it, but your responsibility is to end the threat to your family and you asap. Snake shot rounds are only safe in a revolver. They are for shooting snakes or pesky birds. If someone wearing a heavy winter coat is coming through your home, the snake shot isn’t likely to even harm the perp unless you hit them in the eyes, in which case the coat is irrelevant.
Good to know, thanks.
I am under the impression that only Magnum Rimfire, is available with Jacketed bullets. Am I wrong? Who manufactures a 22LR that has Jacketed bullets?
Actually, except for the fact that they are intimdating on both ends, it would be the perfect weapon for them.
Something like a Mossberg 500 (or an even less expensive Maverick) with two barrels. One for serious social purposes (18.5") , and one to shoot clay targets with later. You could do all that for maybe $250-300 at WalMart. Even the cheapo birdshot ammo would be OK for home defense and practice, although a box or two of buckshot would probably be a good idea for when the SHTF.
I actually find shotguns to be less intimidating on the trigger end than heavy handguns, but that's probably because I shot those well before I ever shot a handgun of any kind, let alone an effective centerfire one.
I wouldn't recommend the .22, which is likely to just make any attacker more angry, at least in the short term. But a Ruger Mini-14 would be good, and just as easy to shoot, if somewhat louder, and it fires the same round as the M-16 or semi-auto clones thereof. More expensive than .22 rimfire, by a lot, but cheaper than most any other centerfire rifle cartridge.
An M-1 Carbine would also be good. Ammo is cheaper than the 5.56mm (which is .22 caliber) of the Mini-14/AR-15, and you can usually find reloaded or "de-mil'd" cartridges at a pretty good price...for practice. For serious social purpose, soft point ammunition is also available, both re-loaded and new. Aguila (Eagle) ammo is pretty reasonable if you can find it. (Buying it also keeps folks employed in Mexico who otherwise might turn wetback, and it's made on Remington machinery) Also various eastern European manufacturers.
Don't count on history repeating itself exactly. Everyone is more mobile these days compared to the late 60's.
It would be a big mistake for them to venture out of the Hood, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't. After all, there is more to steal and burn in the "nicer" neighborhoods, and they won't really care much about the color of the folks who own that stuff.
Undermining your country's foreign policy, which is BTW, illegal, for political gain, is not "responsible.
I can’t help but think that a shotgun is best for the novice gunner.
It would be fairly easy to miss with a rifle or a pistol - and you could end up dead because of it.
But with a shotgun, in a highly intense and nerve wracking situation, even if you don’t score a direct hit, odds are very, very high that you will strike and wound the target - and that by itself might be enough to buy you the valuable few seconds you need to survive.
I have Remingtons. They’re a lighter bullet than the Federal standard LR. I have never had a jam with my little HP22. When I shoot Federals in it I have to clean it after thirty rounds, but i can do a box of the Remingtons since they’re jacketed.
Even then, the head is basically round, with some flat on the sides. Unless you can hit it pretty square on, .22 is likely to cause a bloody wound and big headache, but not a quick stop. Of course that's physically, The whack in the head and lots of blood would result in a psychological stop in most cases, but not all, especially if the shootee is drunk or high, a likely condition during a riot.
Yes, you have Yellow Jacket .22’LRs. They are not a copper jacketed bullet which is the general meaning of “jacketed bullets”.
I am trying to locate exactly what compound is plated to the lead.
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/rimfire/22_rimfire.asp
Years ago, I read exactly what they were plating or fuzing onto the bullets as they were formed. Probably in an old Fish and Game magazine.
Because there isn't very much of it in a pistol cartridge. If you're going to use shot, use a shotgun - that's why shotguns' bores are so much larger than rifles.
If, however, you intend to go with one caliber for both pistol and rifle - that's the traditional definition of "carbine", by the way, a short-barreled shoulder piece that employs a pistol cartridge - then I can vouch for the pairing of a S&W (or a Ruger) revolver and a sweet little Rossi carbine that I picked up with an eye to shooting the Cowboy Action events. I prefer the Smith because it's double-action. The Rossi has a 16-in barrel whose length allows it to hit much harder than allowed by the shorter barrel of a handgun - more room and time for gas expansion. Muzzle energy resembling a .44 magnum revolver. Handy enough for inside use. The only problem with the Rossi is a small loading port, IMHO.
Even if you just get the lever action, that would be a good choice. The lever action sort of sneaks in under the gun control and hoplophobe radar, and the handgun cartridge cambering makes for easier shooting, yet with slightly better performance than the same cartridge in a handgun, as well as more rounds per reload, with easy "topping off" if required.
You even be able to find one at WalMart or Big 5 Sporting Goods.
WalMart shows a Henry Repeating arms lever action in .45 colt and .44 magnum. Either will "git 'er done".
Just checked, Big 5 has the Mossberg 500 with a spare 18.5" barrel for $229 after rebate. (Might be more, or maybe less, in your location, but that's what the one in Wichita Falls Texas has it for.) Or if you want to reach out and touch someone, they have a Savage 30-06 bolt action with scope for $400.
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