Preparing for the "Big What if": Buying a gun

WaPo & Free Republic ^ | Sept 15, 2008 | Joe Brower

[Kevmo]

The Washington Post article is already being commented upon here in Free Republic.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202414

The purpose of this thread is to help Freepers and lurkers decide upon what the best mode of self defense would be in the case of the breakdown in social order such as happened with the Rodney King riots.

Joe Brower owns one of the RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) ping lists. I tried to convince him to open this vanity because he and his friends are more knowledgeable about guns. He says, "there have already been threads on the subject you mention right here on FR, although I can't locate them now. Tell you what -- you start the thread and then ping me, and I'll then flag my RKBA list for comments. I'm sure some folks in that group would be able to provide links, as well as plenty of timely advice. "

This scenario is called the SHTF scenario, where the acronym stands for $#|+ Hits The Fan. So this will be the SHTF gun thread for November 2008... Of course, gun ownership isn't for everyone. But it is the most accessible safety measure under our constitution, which is as our founding fathers intended. Recall where the police were when the Rodney King riots started: they left the scene for their own safety. If that were to happen in your neighborhood, what is your plan?

[Mashood]

I don’t know. Was firing my Romanian WASR (licensed AK-47) the other day and man is it accurate. Cheap ammo.. all Russian milspec. Fun assault gun.

[William Tell]

yazoo said: "I found a better solution."

I would not underestimate the ability of an eight-year-old to get access to any gun, however secured.

I believe that the best way to "kid-proof" your guns is to "gun-proof" your kids.

Children who understand the following will be much safer than those that don't:
1 - Guns make unpleasantly loud noises when fired.
2 - Guns make holes in objects, animals, or people that are sufficient to kill them, causing extreme pain in the process.
3 - Unless you know for a certainty that a gun is not loaded, then it has the potential to fire and many people, including children, have died for misunderstanding this point.
4 - Mom and Dad are more than willing to supervise safe use of guns whenever the children desire it.
5 - Reports of unsupervised gun use will result in severe punishment.

Both of my daughters were educated to this level at the age of FOUR.

[William Tell]

I should add that I am also very wary of "trigger locks".

Such devices by their very nature violate one of the key firearms safety rules; never touch the trigger until you are ready to fire.

If one should ever accidently install a trigger lock on a loaded gun, there may not be a safe way to remove it.

Cable locks through the action which prevent chambering of a round are probably fine for preventing a child who has no understanding of how to defeat the mechanism from being harmed.

[familyop]

"What you say is true but considering history the only riots are people burning down their own neighborhoods."

That's a good and true point. Evil ones tend to look for familiarities before thieving and vandalizing.

Over the next couple of years, I'll be building in a development with hundreds of miles of private roads and very large lots "in the middle of nowhere." I also lived for a few years in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods of the 1970s. Most would be surprised at how many good, conservative families lived there. So...various perspectives.

On building the place, the peace that most people describe as boredom is very inviting to some of us in the later years of life. ...looking forward to gardening, writing software and tinkering with small energy plants, while currencies equalize, freight fuel becomes more expensive, and the SCO continues building its nuclear arsenals against my liberaltarian country.

[Wonder Warthog]

"I live in silicon valley, in a working class neighborhood, mostly hispanic and mostly homeowners rather than renters. I have 2 kids under 9 years old, so it would be important to have a safe trigger lock thingamajiggie."

Completely un-necessary. WHATEVER firearm you get, take it and the kids out to the country to a suitable site, and let them fire it. Give the "standard lecture" on gun safety. Kids ain't as stupid as folks (antigunners) make them out to be.

But if you absolutely feel you HAVE to lock them up, get a bedside "quick open" storage box (assuming you opt for a handgun). Far faster to get to than any type of trigger lock. If you want it for self defense, speed is likely to be of the essence.

[Poser]

My recommendations:
Home defense - 12ga. pump shotgun with 00 buckshot
Concealed carry - Ruger LCP .380
Automobile - Taurus Judge 45LC/.410 shotshell

[VOA]

the Winchester '97

Is that shotgun model that can be operated thusly:
1. Load
2. Point/Aim
3. Depress Trigger
4. Cycle until magazine is empty
5. Release trigger
6. Repeat Steps 1-5 until everyone coming for you are dead,
incapacitated by wounds or have run away.

I'm just thinking I heard once that the "hold trigger until empty
option" was a positive quality for users in tight spots,
but viewed as a defect by "safety experts" (people that probably
have never shot a pistol, rifle or shotgun!).

[A. Patriot]

I can’t believe no one has mentioned buying a semi-auto AK47 varient.

1. Cheaper than a AR-15
2. Ammo is cheaper than 5.56 mm
3. Proven reliability of design
4. Hollow points available
5. 30 round magazines relatively cheap and available.

[coolbreeze]

I live on the Eastern Shore of Virginia (Accomack co. pop. 38,500, yes, in the whole county), I don’t anticipate any trouble here, but I have a clear field of fire to cover my 2 acres...7x57 1895 Chilean mauser, Mossberg 500 12 Ga. if they get closer, and a Marlin .22 for their f#$%ing poodle.

[CodeToad]

We are looking into a more rural area for building. Being outside a metro area is inviting.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Of course, gun ownership isn't for everyone.

If you're a US citizen with no criminal record it is.

Look, blacks aren't going to riot. All of this is being promoted by the far-left irrelevant NAACP, the media, the DNC, and other left-wing organs. Real blacks, middle-class folks who got jobs and families aren't going to be out in the streets. You'll hear a lot of talking smack after the election from the usual liberal black pundits but that's about it.

[familyop]

"Believe me, I still carry a .40 cal Sigma with a 14-round clip and a spare. I’m not saying it doesn’t kill ‘em, I’m just saying the movies where they fly backwards through a plate glass window just isn’t reality. And armed is virtually always better than unarmed."

...agreed. On a related topic, bear are getting thicker and less afraid of people in my area and other places. Bear were relatively harmless when not so plentiful, but break-ins by them are getting to be too common.

So I read quite a bit of material on how to stop bear (last resort after other precautions, of course). Stopping a bear on the spot is not so likely after all. The nearest one can get to doing so is by using some of the most heavy and penetrating (hardened) shotgun slugs at very short range--recoil energy comparable to that of elephant rifles. Even then, bear often continue moving (or even attacking) at least a little. Noise and recoil are not a problem for me (see tagline with long, boring and varied range rotations in mind) but rather difficult for most.

Armed robbers are said to have run for long distances--with some and at times--after being hit point blank and center mass with .45 ACP rounds.

[G.Mason]

I think you misunderstood me.

I only was intimating that I was not answering for you.

It had nothing to do with anything else, but that.

Regards

[B4Ranch]

Your home isn’t worth a serious injury to anyone who lives there! If you think that you are in a particularily bad spot, move your family out of there ASAP when unrest begins.

If your family is like most where mom and Pop work, the kids go to school, etc. Write a Disaster Plan. Who picks up the kids on what days? Always keep the cars filled above the half tank mark. Assemble a duffle bag filled with two or three days clothing, shoes, underwear, tooth brush, soap towels, etc. for each member of the house. Better known as Bug Out Bags, when you have to Bug Out, grab the bags and go.

Mom, have a spot in the yard where you can bury your expensive jewelry. Gather the important papers together and put them in a small box. They go with you.

Pop, you keep track of defending the family remembering that you want to AVOID a confrontation, NOT get into one. So plan as many ways as possible to get to your destination as possible, avoiding likely hotspots. Also make it your job to supply/load the water and drinks, the heavy stuff so Mom doesn’t have to. Take two cars out of your neighborhood and drop one off at a friends. That way if one vehicle isn’t performing you have an option.

These weapons you want? How about borrowing one from a friend? That way he/she can take you to the range and you can familiarize yourself with it.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Correct. .22 is a varmint gun, and not any very-big varmints at that."

Can't agree. As a younker, I killed more than one full-grown semi-wild hog with .22LR and hollow points. It took 2-3 shots, but with a semi-auto rifle, those only take a couple of seconds. Up to a point, bigger is indeed better, but any firearm beats hands or club.

[WKeller]

A couple of thoughts here. The act of purchasing a weapon is a huge mental step. You are setting up the conditions where you could actually take a life. This is a step that should give everyone great pause.

Second, once a weapon is taken up in defense, there is no taking it back. It sets into action either a “fight or flight” response on the part of both the attacker and the defender. If the defender decides to take flight, it is likely it will result in giving your attacker a weapon to be used against you.

If your attacker chooses to fight, you must kill them. There is no “hit’em in the leg” position, your life and those of your family/friends are at risk, you keep shooting until your attacker is dead or you weapon is empty.

This is an act you will relive forever. You will see their faces, experience the moment over and over and will second guess yourself for many years to come. Consider this before you purchase your weapon.

As for a choice of weapon, I assume this is for home defense. Purchase a youth 20ga pump shotgun. Purchase a box of buckshot and a couple boxes of slugs. Most shotguns will take 3 to 5 rounds. Load it so the first round fired is buckshot, then slug, then buckshot, etc. A youth size is small and easily handled within the confines of your house.

Finally, GET TRAINING!! Gunsite or Thunder Ranch both offer defensive shotgun courses that will give you the best possible chance for survival in a firefight.

[Kevmo]

Thanks. It sounds to me like “stopping power” is a bit overrated. How much stopping power does a hollow point .22 have compared to a .38 normal round?

[Kevmo]

Obama is not the same kind of situation. Besides, he is only 1/4 black.
***Most blacks don’t know that, and indeed even the author of this article we’ve sprinboarded from.