Posted on 09/11/2008 9:55:10 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Sept 10, 2008 — Astrobiologist David Deamer believes that life can spontaneously emerge without design, but he thinks lay people are too uneducated to understand how this is possible, so he gives them the watered-down version of Darwin’s natural selection instead, which he knows is inadequate to explain the complexity of life. That’s what he seemed to be telling reporter Susan Mazur in an interview for the Scoop (New Zealand). Is the lay public really too dense for the deeper knowledge of how evolution works?...
(Excerpt) Read more at creationsafaris.com ...
I don’t know where to begin. I really don’t.
I’m one that believes evolution and creationism/ID should both be taught AS THEORY, and work from there. Censoring and suing into silence is UN-American period.
I’ve not been able to bring marxism, capitalism, communism or wahabbi-ism into the discussion because I’M focused on the SCIENCE! PERIOD!
So spare ME about the “demonizing”.
I too have seen all kinds of drivel like militant Islam believes in God so therefore they’re MY allies in the evo/creationism argument. It works both ways.
But by your logic if Obama exclaims that volkswagons might make better cars for kids to get around on college campuses than say big suv’s, then he’s wrong about that because he’s a marxist.
I would listen to him less because of his lack of intelligence than because of his marxism. But everytime he said something I wouldn’t automatically dismiss it based on either.
Even that dumbass is right once in a blue moon.
Well, if it were designed that way, that would be an explanation.
The theory of evolution through natural selection of genetic variation has an answer at the ready.
Which is what?
Bacteria are everywhere, and are highly successful and highly adaptable. Most likely our mitochondria and plants chloroplasts have bacterial ancestry, so they are inside us and have evolved with us.
Bacteria are in no way ‘resistant to change’, significant or otherwise.
Now how about addressing the question?
Why would a bacteria as part of its stress response increase its mutation rate?
Nobody said anything about *giving up* just because one believes that God did it.
I don't see that any of the great scientists who laid the very foundations of much of modern science felt compelled to give up just because they believed that God did it.
On the contrary, that belief inspired Newton to investigate the world around him. His rationale was that God was a god of order and that He created an orderly world and that through observation of it, certain patterns could be observed and learned.
I don't see that Christians and creationists who are scientists and believe that God did it give up either. There is simply no evidence to back up that statement.
The whole idea that one believing that the cause of everything is God's hand in it, producing a fatalism that stifles intellectual pursuit is a fallacy. It's only purpose is to discredit that belief by presenting those who hold to it in a false light.
It's not true and it's not based on truth.
Just let a school district propose teaching creation and you'll see a lawsuit filed faster than you can say *ACLU*.
It's true and you know it and you don't need any links to creationist websites. There's been plenty of threads right here dealing with that issue and I know you've seen them because you've been here long enough.
I try to remember the debate is about science, not all the other fluff.
He may be a whack job when it comes to government and economics, but a brilliant scientist.
Einstein was like that but he couldn’t comb his own hair.
Hell I’M like that...I’m a hospice nurse but my “cooking” is so bad I can barely make a bowl of cold cereal. But I know what to do when someone starts dying.
The soviets beat us into space.
Besides, if a fellow marxist made a statement or postulated a theory that didn’t fit the ‘norm’, why wouldn’t you listen to him, if you’re a marxist?
It seems his view would carry more merit than say if a “capitalist pig” made such a statement.
The guy is a scientist. You don’t support scientists if they are marxists?
Ummmm define “successful”.
I don’t see swimming around in snot or cohorting around someone’s butt as particularly “successful”.
Who knew?
Should we fill our pools with green slime next?
What makes you think the Pope doesn’t believe in an omniscient, omnispresent God?
E=MC2
Since Aug 25, 2008
What was your previous screen name?
What is “IT” that determines what entity will spring up out of primordial swamp soup and become a virus or a bacterium....you know way back to the very first of those species?
What mechanism triggered a creature to split off becoming a reptile while one became a mammal, assuming both had a common ancestor?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservatism
Main Entry: con·ser·va·tism
1) capitalized a: the principles and policies of a Conservative party
b: the Conservative party
2) a: disposition in politics to preserve what is established
b: a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change; specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage)
3: the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change
So, how exactly, should *conservatism* mean educated? Are you presuming that education inherently leads to conservative values?
If being educated leads to conservatism, then why are so many *scientists* and evos so willing to throw their support behind liberal, America and Christian hating groups like the ACLU as they rob us of our freedoms through the imposition of big government on the people.
The evos on this forum as a whole seem to have no problem using government force to establish their worldview in the public school system. I've yet to see one object to government control of schools and curriculum. Supporting federal government control of any area of our lives is not conservative, and not smart.
Ah, the *if you were really educated you'd agree with us* fallacy.
Great for the ego, but not true.
As far as the origins of life, a virus cannot reproduce without a bacteria or eukaryote, and eukaryote seem to have organelles that have likely bacterial origin, so that leaves bacteria is the most archaic life form still extant.
As far as what mechanism can trigger speciation such that reptiles and mammals share a common ancestor, it usually involves small changes in small populations for long enough that successful reproduction with the ancestral population becomes less and less frequent until it becomes unlikely and eventually impossible.
Different stresses on different populations shape them differently. Just look at what the Earth did to the human race. We have blacks skin where we need to filter out sunlight, pale skin where we need to absorb light to make vitamin D, kinky hair where we need to lose heat, excessive hair where we want to conserve heat, lactose persistence in cultures where milk drinking was advantageous that arose by different ancestral mutations in both African cow herding tribes and Northern Europeans.
Mammals arose from reptiles. There are egg laying mammals with primitive mammary glands and fur, mammals without placentas but with pouches, and placental mammals. These are all extant links of the branches that led from reptile to mammals. Far from the links being ‘missing’ they are living among us.
Reveling in your ignorance may be fun for you, but not me. Have a good night.
Soooo... you are now saying that bacteria aren’t successful?! And I tried having a discussion with you? I challenge you to find a more successful group on the planet.
(Don’t bother trying.)
Heck, even ID’ers are in love with bacteria!
You deliberately miss the point of the comment, but that is OK. I understand. You probably attended public schools.
www.dissentfromdarwin.org
Well, I don’t know about cute!!!!!! My wife lies to me sometimes about that...but...
...I’ve been around here for ALOT longer than 2 years. For several years I came in here for entertainment, news, discussion when I could. Never had a chance to post, I had my hands a little full when my wife was misdiagnosed and was literally dying, while I worked as a hospice nurse and raised 3 kids pretty much on my own.
And I’ve been around for 47 years all together. I was a conservative for MANY years before there even WAS a FR.
What I DO know whattajoke, is it’s never EVER “conservative” to sue Christian’s into silence. Hell, it’s not even AMERICAN!
Not in public when they want to display a nativity.
Not when they want the 10 Commandments displayed in a court house.
Not when they prefer crosses to be on town logos.
Not when they want their children to be able to sing Christmas carols or enjoy Christmas trees in school.
Not when they want crosses in college chapels or crosses in cemeteries, federal or not.
Not when they want IGWT on our coins.
Not when they want Under God in our pledge.
And NOT when pseudo-itellectuals exclaim that they and THEY ALONE understand science, definitions and theories thereof!
And frankly, we don’t care if you hold your breath until your face turns blue! It’s not conservative, it’s not right, and it’s not American. The science shouldn’t need law in a free society to enforce it to BE science!
Evolution is but a microcosm of the on-going culture war in this country...often having absolutely nothing to do with the science, and I could care less if you acknowledge that it’s been hijacked, just like everything else godless liberals have hijacked in our society, or not!
See, I’m old enough to remember when evolution WAS theory and God WAS welcomed in school...even science class. The science wasn’t “courrupted”...it was actually enhanced....much like EVERY subject.
Now did we exclude evolution? Nooooooo....
Did we treat religion as science or science as religion?
Well again...nooooooooo.....
Did we become a THEOCRACY?
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
IN FACT, by being so tolerant what we’ve become is a culture that’s afraid to even say “Merry Christmas”!
The exact OPPOSITE has happened!
My own kids school was threatened with legal action to remove the FEDERAL HOLIDAY “Christmas” from the school calendar!
For those of us who recognize or use evolution as a tool of science at God’s disposal...I’m all good. I’ve never had a problem with evolution as theory, my problem all along is those disingenuous God-haters that treat it as fact. That and then have the audacity to shout down and sue people who dare question it.
Those that use evolution to stay angry with God and believe they have the exclusive answers about origins and so forth while suing people, not for the sake of science but to retain their power...and worse: program children into their godless worldview...
rest assured there WILL be a fight!
But let me explain, there already IS a fight!
www.ThomasMore.org
www.aclj.org
And places like FR are on the spot when godless lunatics are out there with their separation of church and state screeds trying to remove Under God from the pledge, or remove crosses from town logos...and yes even arrogant know-it-alls that think science is sheerly an agnostic, atheistic enterpise that they and they alone control!
The fight has already been joined!
And “educated” doesn’t mean programmed. Not in this culture. Well, not all of us.
Yet.
obtw whattajoke...how do you reconcile that...uhhh...conservatives should be educated and creationsists are not when it’s YOUR side that bans intelligence?
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