Posted on 08/28/2008 2:46:46 PM PDT by jessduntno
John McCain's Imprisonment in Vietnam: A True Tale of Heroism
James Ray
Have you ever heard the whole account of John McCain's imprisonment during the Vietnam War? Until recently, I was only aware of the general story; I didn't know the details. But I recently read a couple of pieces on McCain's capture, imprisonment and torture by the North Vietnamese, and it blew me away. Not since Ernest Shackleton's cursed journey to the South Pole have I heard a tale of such courage, mental toughness and physical endurance.
The Young John McCain
The Crash and Capture In October of 1967, McCain was flying a mission over Hanoi in his A-4 Skyhawk plane, when his craft was hit with enemy fire. With his plane going down in flames, McCain ejected his seat and his body from the cockpit of plane, but in the process he broke both of his arms and one leg. He also suffered a severe concussion, which must have made it even harder for him to find and pull his chute. But he did. With two broken arms and cracked noggin, falling towards the North Vietnamese soldiers who had just shot his airplane out from under him, this guy somehow had the wherewithal to pull his cute and keep himself alive.
He landed hard in a pond in downtown Hanoi and was immediately set upon by North Vietnamese soldiers. One bayoneted McCain in the groin. Another broke his shoulder with the butt of a rifle. The attack also further compounded his leg fracture; his tibia was now sticking out of his leg at a ninety-degree angle.
His broken body was thown into back of a jeep, and McCain was taken to the Hoa Lo prison, also kown as "The Hanoi Hilton." From all of the accounts of American POWs who were trapped in this place, it sounds like the Hilton was the worst, shittiest prison on earth.
Shortly after being brought in, a doctor who was either incompetent or simply cruel set two of McCain's fractures without anaesthesia and then refused to set the other two. McCain was then beaten and tortured for several days. Among other horrors that he endured, his arms were bound together behind hi back and he was lifted off the ground in medieval torture style. After more than anyone could possibly be expected to endure, McCain was put into a prison cell and left there, for a long time.
The Offer To Be Set Free Over the months, his weight dropped to about 100 pounds. Other POWs thought he would die for sure. But he didn't. McCain somehow recovered. His bones healed, although he would forever be limited in his movement, and he gained back his strength.
Then, in 1968, he was called into the prison commandant's office and offered his release.
It seemed that McCain's father, Admiral John McCain, Sr., had been named head of all all navy forces in the Pacific. The North Vietnamese thought it would be a smart public relations move to release the admiral's son. But the younger McCain refused. He cited a rule from the military's code of conduct that said that prisoners of war were to be released in the order they were captured and imprisoned. McCain said it was simply unfair for him to get out when another guy who'd been there for years would have to stay. He refused to be released.
Prison guards tried to persuade the young pilot by breaking two of his ribs, knocking out his teeth and re-breaking one of his arms. He still refused to leave.
After all that punishment and torture and psychological abuse, I'd imagine that most men would be able to rationalize breaking that rule, just this once. But not McCain. He stayed.
And he spent the next four years of his life at the Hanoi Hilton, much of it in a small solitary confinement cell called the "punishment room."
He was finally released on March 14, 1972, more than five years after his capture. To this day, he remains physically limited by the injuries he sustained in prison.
Conclusion I don't know if John McCain will win the election, or if he can be a good president. I certainly don't know if he can get us out of the many messes created by our current presidential administration. I don't even think that I am going to vote for him.
But if he does become president, I will find comfort in having a leader with a heart that is 100 times bigger than his predecessor, a devotion to his country and to his military duty that is second to none, and the physical and mental toughness of an fing bull.
If not, you are therefore a little man. The kind of pipsqueak unable to back up his tongue-in-cheek insults. The kind that thinks he can build himself up by off handedly impugning the demonstrated courage of a better man than himself.
I am not responsible for, nor can I explain, your delusions, assumptions, and misconceptions.
I stated quite plainly that since I don’t know what happened while he was in that prison camp, I made no decisions on the rumors and innuendo. That’s as straightforward as I can be.
I oppose him because of the legislation that bears his name.
Can you wrap your mind around that and without hysterics or drama?
You say:
I made no decisions on . . . innuendo,
but you tossed out "patriotism is the last bastion of the scoundrel" in post #14.
So tell me little man, WHY THE HELL is that in a thread about the courage and honor of LCDR John McCain USN?
Get over yourself.
I was referring to you being a scoundrel with your attitude of wrapping yourself in the flag and uniform. (In fact, you never did reply to my question about whether the uniform absolves any crime or bad act?)
The world does not revolve around John McCain and everything is not about him. Sometimes, it is about you.
Well little man, I'm in good company with the likes of Fred Thompson who brought down the house with his praise of the young John McCain. Did you watch his speech, or could you not stand to watch a scoundrel?
It’s your behavior, sweetie.
Young John McCain — navy pilot. POW. Hero. Honorable to the max.
Middle aged and old John McCain — Author, sponsor, and cosponsor of some of the worst liberty destroying legislation ever signed into law. Ardent supporter of granting amnesty to millions and millions of illegal aliens including countless criminals all the while without securing our borders during a time of war and terror threats. Dishonorable and despicable.
Why the change? When did it happen. When does the praise end and the criticism start?
Benedict Arnold was an American war hero and then he betrayed his fellow soldiers and countrymen. Do we honor his service or just remember that in his official capacity that he betrayed his country? Do we build half a statue to him?
Despite what young McCain was or may have been, he has done a tremendous disservice to his country as a senator and I believe will continue to do so as president.
Worship him if you want. I will not.
That was the first halfhearted, sarcastic, complimentary statement you could bring yourself to make in a dozen posts to this thread about the integrity and heroism of young John McCain. Think about it.
Think about this.
I don’t care what young McCain was or wasn’t.
Middle aged and old McCain isn’t someone that I’d vote for. And if you are honest with yourself and watched his speech tonight, he hasn’t given up on amnesty. It’s coming and so are more of the same inane ideas that he wants to foist upon us and caused us to reject him so strongly early on.
They why have you been posting to this thread, John McCain's Imprisonment in Vietnam: A True Tale of Heroism, other than to tear down a man far better than yourself?
Are you here to enforce conformity?
It’s an open forum. I can read what I choose. I can think what I want and I can post to the threads that I choose.
But to explain what I said in that last post. Young McCain doesn’t influence my vote. Middle aged and old McCain cannot earn my vote no matter what he was when he was young. Whatever ideals or strength got him through captivity was not strong enough to get him through the congress and DC unscathed.
Are you deliberately trying to provoke a reaction? You’re not going to get the kind that you want. Sorry.
I've saved your post #5. It's a great example of the worst of the McCain Deranged. Congratulations.
You, a supposed conservative, not only cannot empathize with the sufferings of our military men at the Hanoi Hilton, you take the time to mock and not so subtly imply that young John McCain suffered little and actually dishonored himself.
What's the matter with you? What's your problem?
You are a despicable POS.
(Sorry about the formatting.)
LOL
If I am ‘deranged’, you are suffering from severe problems with reading comprehension.
First off, I said that based on the article there was room for doubt about happened. What’s not true about that?
I said that no man can be blamed for breaking — IF HE BROKE — under the torture that they endured. That’s not good enough for you?
BTW, last night in his speech he said that he did break. I don’t know what he meant exactly because he didn’t go into detail.
IF he did anything wrong in a prison camp under extreme duress, he can be forgiven — even if he doesn’t forgive himself. Tell me what duress he was under when he authored the horrible legislation and pursued amnesty while living in the comfortable confines of Washington DC.
THAT IS WHAT I CANNOT FORGIVE OR FORGET!
Got it?
And let me give you a little bit of advice. Quit trying to deliberately misinterpret what I say. You’ll be happier if you don’t twist yourself into knots while trying to pound me into the sand.
Now, tell me how someone who is dying and is getting no treatment and is eating the equivalent of ‘gruel’ at the hands of his captors, gets well? It doesn’t happen. Either he wasn’t as bad or he was getting treatment or both. That’s not an attack, that’s a medical fact.
BTW, George Washington — a man that I truly admire — did not chop down the cherry tree.
Here is an account from azcentral.
After six weeks in the hospital, McCain was taken to a prison camp known as The Plantation and placed in a cell with George "Bud" Day and Norris Overly, both Air Force majors.Taking one look at McCain, Day was convinced that the North Vietnamese had brought McCain to their cell to die and planned on blaming the Americans.
"He was extremely skinny, and he was just about filthy," said Day, who after the war became a longtime Fort Walton Beach, Fla., attorney and veterans-affairs activist. "He had food and drink and liquids run all over his face. He had a pretty good beard. ... He probably weighed less than 100 pounds.
"He was in this great big white cast, and his hair was snow white. He just looked like he was absolutely on the verge of death."
Day said McCain's injured right arm jutted from his body cast like a stick "sticking out of a snowman."
But more than anything else, Day remembers McCain's eyes.
"His eyes were extremely bright; they had that real fever luster," Day said. "I just took one look at him and had no qualms that he was going to die, and soon."
Despite his poor condition, McCain still was happy to see fellow Americans. The men spent the night whispering among themselves.
By 6 a.m., Day was convinced that McCain had a decent chance to live, providing the fever did not get him. Slowly, McCain began to recover.
"He was just a very determined guy with a lot of spirit," Day said. "It's kind of like when you see a horse, a young colt, and you just know this is a strong-spirited animal. You could see all that in him."
If you want to call Bud Day's (Medal of Honor) first hand account a lie based on your extensive medical knowledge you are going to have a big problem with every Freeper here.
In a nutshell, you've said it all.
bttt
Did you read what I wrote?
Did you read Day’s account?
I was commenting on the article posted. This article led me to believe that some time went by between the ‘he’s going to die’ comment and ‘somehow he recovered’. Are you with me?
Over time, without medical treatment and proper nutrition, one who is dying, dies. They do not get better.
Then I said that either he wasn’t as bad or he got treatment or both.
In Day’s account, he stated that the day McCain came into camp looking so bad that he thought that he would die. THEN, by 6 AM, he was looking better.
Guess what? If this happened within a day of arriving then Day was wrong and McCain wasn’t as bad as he thought. There is nothing inconsistent between what I said and what Day reported.
Do you feel better now? Are all of the other FReepers okay now too?
no. Why don't you go back to the Bob Barr bulletin boards and commiserate with his 3 other supporters.
Can’t ‘go back’ to something that I’ve never been to.
I like Bob Barr, personally and politically, though we do have points where we don’t see eye to eye. Still, I’ve never been to any site devoted to supporting him. Same with Ron Paul.
Can you tell me why you choose to go after me personally rather than state what I was wrong in my post?
Are you the hall monitor for the Group Think Police?
I know that I am not likely to get anything resembling an answer from you so you are under no pressure to respond.
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