Illegal immigrant faces murder charge in Ozark County

KYTV ^ | Jul 21, 2008 at 5:30 PM | Chad Plein

[TYVets]

“There was an argument, push came to shove, a gun was drawn,” said Sheriff Raymond Pace.

As a gun owner I was taught even if you are in the right, never never escalate the level of the violence.

[Tspud1]

Not that I am condoning trespassing but my take on this situation is the person who was engaged to the ILLEGAL was
not really the owner. At that age most people don’t own property on a creek. Her family probably owns it and the ILLEGAL got macho because he thought he was in the right and down and bully some gringos. Shooting someone over a picnic sounds more like gang/thug mentality. What happened to calling the sheriff? I forgot, he couldn’t because he’s ILLEGAL. Let’s see what comes out on ILLEGALS past record.

[gubamyster]

ping

[Ben Ficklin]

"cook out on somebody else's property"

Tho the above article doesn't mention it, the Baxter Bulletin article yesterday said that the illegal son-in-law approached the group first to ask them to leave and then later the mother-in-law, who owned the property, and her son-in-law returned to make them leave, which is when the shots were fired.

[fostergirl101]

i agree with you 100% that loser should rot in jail.. my family wasn’t hurting anything and they always clean up after themselves, they didn’t know it was private property and was gonna leave... he had no right to shot my cousin

[AuntB]

“The irony is of course that an illegal ALIEN , who broke the law and trespassed into the U.S., wants to use deadly force to remove trespassers from his people’s “property”.”

Irony so thick you could wall up the entire border with it. It appears to me, most of these invaders claim anything and everything they can as ‘their’ right.

[fostergirl101]

they have been going there for years and didn't know that it was private property. they were happy to leave..

[ozarkgirl]

A real local property owner would've just come up on their 4-wheeler and told them they could party there, iffin they don't get too rowdy AND clean up after themselves and that he had wrote down their car plate #'s and if they place was a mess when they left, they'd be gettin' a call from the sheriff. That's how it's done around here! And nobody ever gets shot for it!

Yep, I can vouch for that, that's the way it's done. :-) unless of course it's posted and has purple trees, then the owner probably wouldn't be as nice.

[HiJinx]

who in their right mind gets entangled with someone who is here illegally?

Aw, c'mon Jilly, you know the answer to that. Anyone involved in a romantic entanglement is not in their right mind to start with...

[Tspud1]

Ben, what would you do if a Mexican came up to you on a creek in the Ozarks that you had been to many times and told you to leave? Paper says dead kid was 6’5”. Any idea why the ILLEGAL would have to shoot him much less 4 times?
Ozark County Sheriff Raymond Pace said that despite being on private property, the spot on Lick Creek where the shooting occurred — known as Opossum Walk — has been a popular swimming place for many years. “I used to swim there when I was a little boy,”

[Ben Ficklin]

"Ben, what would you do"

I would leave, but, I wouldn't have been there in the first place. How about you? I guess I can see how some young men might have been there, but I have a difficult time understanding how Alonso Foster, Sr would be taking his family out for a Sunday afternoon of trespassing. Likewise, I have a difficult time understanding how a property owner would try to confront and evict someone of that size. I'm curious about what part alcohol may have played.

I'm in the area and I see the same thing here. The adjoining lot owner is absentee and they cross his land to get to the river. I've asked a few of them about it and they all say that they have been crossing this property to get to the river for years and don't plan to stop.

BTW, I have the internet, and I can read Sheriff Pace's entire quote, not just the part you posted above.

[Tspud1]

I can understand your point but I read some of the other news articles and got a different take. I posted what the Sheriff said “I used to swim there when I was a little boy,”
This quote from father “Foster said they heard no loud words or fighting between his son and Sesena-Murrieta. He added they had swam and picnicked at the creek thousands of times and didn’t see any no-trespassing signs, he said.”
http://www.baxterbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080722/NEWS01/807220311/-1/NEWSFRONT2
Sounds like he was a good kid from article..”He was a really good student,” said Norfork High School principal Bobby Hulse, who was at the hospital Sunday night supporting the family. “He was just a really, really good kid who would do anything in the world you would want him to do,” he said.“He was a very skilled young man,” said Hulse. Foster was ready to help at school if someone’s car wouldn’t start or had a flat tire, he said.
“I just can’t say enough good things,” Hulse said. “He will be missed by all of us. He was so well-liked by the people in the community and by our sports fans. He was a really good kid.”
So you would leave a place that you had been to many times and was a popular local swimming hole because a Hispanic male came up to you(in Ozarks) and told you to leave. I might when the sheriff came or the landowner but not for the ILLEGAL. By the way, father said they were leaving when “Foster said they spoke to her and agreed to leave and suddenly they heard their son getting shot behind them a few feet away.”

[Ben Ficklin]

Once again, you are only using part of the Sheriff's quote. Next you use Foster's quote that he heard no loud words or fighting but omit that the Sheriff said there was shouting and shoving.

Next you accurately quote that Foster said that he agreed to leave. He didn't say we(his group) were leaving. What he really said was that when the group finished their hot dogs, they would leave, maybe.

BTW, it is apparent that you have problems with Mexicans in authority. You better stay out of Texas. Or California, or many other places.

[Tspud1]

I am not attacking you just pointing out the other news stories. Since I wasn’t there, I don’t know who to believe, neither does the Sheriff. Did you believe him when he said he swam there as a youth? I use to canoe, hike and cave explore all over the Ozarks so I am pointing out the obvious. If I did go to Texas or Mexifornia I wouldn’t try this, but deep in the heart of the Ozarks I would have serious doubts about leaving on the say so of an ILLEGAL immigrant(can’t tell by looks) There are many places I plan to stay out of because of this type of behavior and it isn’t limited to Mexican areas. What do mean by “what he really said, maybe”?? I can’t find any report that said that. Either way the ILLEGAL shot him 4 times and I think we both agree that there is too much crime by ILLEGALS and too much pandering to them. If not, let me know.

[Ben Ficklin]

You don't need to point out the other news stories, because I have read them.

I'm not disputing that Sheriff Pace said that he swam there as a child. I'm saying that was just a part of the quote. The actual quote in the News-Leader is:

"I used to swim there when I was a little boy," Pace said. "But I think people have been there so much and they make a mess that the land owner has said 'no more"

Now let me tell you what Pace's direct quote implies to me. Prior to this shooting incident, the land owner had been complaining to the Sheriff about the trespassers.

If you read all the articles from the various sources, and then compile all the direct quotes from those articles, you can re-construct what happened. And if you add some speculation to the direct quotes, you can make a very plausible story.

From the quote above we know that the landowner wanted the trespassing to stop. I can speculate that she may have previously been in touch with the Sheriff about the problem.

From other quotes, we know that the group of 7 or 10 was there to swim and picnic. We also know that the illegal mexican son-in-law of the owner rode down on his ATV and told them to leave. Let's speculate that the illegal's manner was probably assertive. Let's speculate that the Foster group said OK, we'll leave.

From other quotes we know that the illegal then returned to the house where his mother-in law was.

Now let's speculate some more: After the illegal left them, the Foster group was probably indignant because they had been using this location for years and here was some mexican, who could be illegal, being bossy and uppity, telling them to leave. Among themselves they probably decided to ignore him. After all, there were many of them and only one of him.

Now let's further speculate that the illegal told his mother-in-law what transpired. Then they waited for a while and when the Foster group didn't leave, the two of them went down to the creek. Because of the size of the group, either she told him to take the pistol or he decided on his own to take the pistol.

Now after they got down to the creek, we know from the direct quotes that Foster, Sr agreed to leave. Not leave, to leave. From Sheriff Pace's direct quote, the group was sitting down to eat when the land owner arrived.

Let's speculate again. When the owner and the illegal returned, the group was sitting down to eat. She told them they had to leave. Foster, Sr said that they were just starting to eat and that would leave after they finished. The owner pointed out that they had agreed to leave earlier, when her son-in-law asked them, but didn't. So now she wasn't willing to let them stay any longer, they had to leave now. The situation started to escalate. Voices started getting louder. Some started standing up. Fingers began pointing. Then shouting. Then shoving. Then bang.

And the final direct quote available to us is of Sheriff Pace saying that the case is being investigated as self-defense.

There are trends that people need to realize. Open lands are being closed and the use of deadly force to protect one's self and property is being expanded by law.