Posted on 07/01/2008 10:40:58 AM PDT by wintertime
We must be willing to redefine education. What education looks like now is an artificial construct. It was not created by people who knew or understood children or teens. It was created by bureaucrats and special interests who wanted to control children and teens.
I talked with a young lady the other day – 14-years-old – who loves horses and aims to own stables and teach riding, among other things. She’s been working with horses since she was five. She’s good enough now that she “breaks” new ones and retrains ones facing changes in the use they’re being put to. She knows her stuff.
(snip)
Then there’s her other life – public school. She failed her end-of-year math exam by three points, so she’s going to summer school. She’ll have to pass the test to move on to the next grade. I’ve talked with her. She’s smart and highly competent – just not especially interested in algebra. She’s more accomplished than many adults (even ones who did pass algebra). But she has four more years of school to go, during which time she’ll have to pass endless tests and divert her efforts from what she knows she’ll devote her life to.
(snip) I get many calls a month from parents of teens who simply haven’t managed to fit into the school mold. They’re smart kids, often kids with serious interests they’re prevented from pursuing because so many adults in their lives are running them through the testing/counseling/therapy wringer.
(snip)
In order to redefine education, we will have to engage in some self-liberation, for most of us have a very hard time letting go (I mean really letting go) of the idea that the state knows some secret about education that we don’t and that if we defy their model we just might be sorry.
(snip)
Maybe you think you are being clever, I don't.
I don't "skewel" anyone, I educate, inform, Teach, train and give insight.
If you want to repost your comments with the corrections I have made I will read them, if you can't be that considerate then please don't post to me.
Without knowing where you live and exactly what your educational qualifications/ background is, I really can't say for certain. I can offer some suggestions, but I don't want these seen as etched in granite:
Teachers have training in Special education.
School Law, There are things you can do in Colleges that you can't in High schools etc..
Test creation and development.
Curriculum development.
Student teaching under a cooperating/ mentoring teacher.
I know that there are Vocational education programs that allow you to teach after taking 5-6 classes, and I have several friends that have gone through "Alternative Certification" programs that gave them credit for life experience.
This is an outright lie it seems you are the one with a reading comphrehsion prolbem.
I am the one that has posted both these thinks several times.
http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=1446
Childbearing out-of-wedlock and absence of fathers varies greatly between racial/ethnic groups.The highest rate was non-Hispanic Blacks, among whom 69.4 percent of births were out-of-wedlock. American Indians have the second highest rate at 58.7 percent, followed by Hispanics at 40.92 percent. Among non-Hispanic whites, 21.54 percent of births are out of wedlock, and Asians/Pacific islanders have the 1owest rate with 15.64 percent of births being out-of-wedlock.
http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/indicators/75UnmarriedBirths.cfm
Large racial/ethnic differences exist in the percentage of births to unmarried women, with non-Hispanic white women and Asian or Pacific Islander women being much less likely to have a nonmarital birth. In 2005, 69.5 percent of all births to non-Hispanic black women, 63.3 percent of births of American Indian or Alaskan native woman, and 47.9 percent of births to Hispanic women occurred outside of marriage, compared with 25.4 percent for non-Hispanic white women and 16.2 percent for Asian or Pacific Islander women (preliminary estimates).
If you don't like these facts then take it up with the peole that did both studies, and get the chip off your shoulder.
Looking at your state requirements, and based on your degree in science/engineering, you ARE qualified to walk into a classroom this September under the alternative licensure program your state offers. The only additional requirements are 12 semester hours (which some districts will pay completely or partially) and 50 hours of supervised student contact (observations). The only approved program is through the Kaplan school and is available online. 12 semester hours are divided into 'quarter hours' and include Ad psych, Ed psych, Reading in the content area, exceptional children, methods, history of ed, and some pedagogy. You state has one of the easiest alternative certifications I've ever seen.
However, even though I hold a Masters from UVA and have been certified in my state for 10 years, I would qualify for the same type of license you would have as I am missing at least two of the required courses. I was surprised as I thought VA had 100% reciprocity with all states but Michigan and NY.
Now you’re accusing me of lying.
My original reply #155 was to your post #131:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2039288/posts?page=131#131
In that post, you specifically pointed to one particular racial group. You didn’t mention any others.
So, there is nothing wrong with my reading skills.
And I just love how people bring race into the discussion, and then when someone responds, they accuse that person of having a chip on the shoulder. You can’t have it both ways: You can’t use race to back up your argument and then complain when another person responds to that argument.
Will someone kindly explain to me why my post #218 was deleted?
You mean that Twink can post obnoxious comments in #161, and I’m not allowed to respond to them? There was nothing wrong with my post. I spent time composing it. I’d like to know which FReeper here had my post deleted. I’d also like it to be restored, if possible.
Thank you, whoever you are! :-)
It isn't a case of being "African American".
I lived on the Maryland Eastern Shore. Our county had a 20% illiteracy rate. The population was overwhelming white and born to American families who had lived in the region for generations. This illiterate white population was just as dysfunctional as any other population group with the same family values.
What are you doing here?
Are you using African Americans as tool in an emotional and manipulative ploy to further your own government school political ends? If I were African American I would be insulted. I **am** insulted as an American and human being!
I am confident that you are **not** using African Americans in a manipulative manner in your classroom? I trust that you are a professional and would never hold up some racial groups to your class as being worthy of pity? This teaching technique would be be highly destructive not only to the African Americans being "used" but also to the other students who are being taught to pity them.
Children (regardless of race) from dysfunction families need to be institutionalized for their education. I have posted this frequently and consistently.
However....Even if these children are from dysfunctional homes, their parent ( usually a mom) is most likely still in the **best** position to choose a private institutional educational setting for their child. If we had an unlimited cap on charters, vouchers, and tax credits, these parents would be far more likely to have the opportunity to do that for their children. ,
Personally, I would be curious to know how many kids of single moms are attending the KIPP charter schools. How many kids from "dysfunctional" families are on the **long**long** waiting lists for charter school admission and vouchers.
It is fortunate that you are wealthy enough to be able to afford, but not everyone has that luxury
My wealth has **nothing** to do with the amount of money being spent per child in the government schools.
Give parents, whether or not they are living in difficult circumstances, the same dollar amount spent on the government education in form of charters, vouchers, and tax credit opportunity. The money is already being collected. Redirect these taxes so that they money follows the child, and isn't wasted on more government school incompetence.
I have never advocated universal homeschooling. But...the tax money is there. Give it to the child in the form of vouchers, tax credits, and lift the artificial caps on charters.
In addition there are plenty of additional reasons to send Children to public schools
1) Looking for signs of abuse or neglect
Do you realize what you are suggesting?????? !!!!
If government schools are preventing abuse then why not take newborns from their moms in the delivery rooms? They could be raised by NEA workers in official government newborn schools? Why? Because then government newborn teachers could look "for signs of abuse or neglect"!!
2) Monitoring Health and immunizations.
If we need government schools for monitoring health and immunization for older children, then surely we need newborn schools to monitor the health and immunizations of newborns, infants, toddlers, and pre-schoolers.
If monitoring health is the reason for government schools, then all private and home schools should be abolished because the government isn't "monitoring" the health of children in these settings.
3) Insuring that students meet minimum standards educationally
I AGREE! **All** homeschools, private schools, and government schools should be held to the **exact** same standards. ABSOLUTELY!
If illiterate and innumerate is the state standard for passing from grade to grade and graduating from government high school, then that should be the **same** standard for home and private schools as well.
verga, homeschoolers have a joke:
" If a government schooled child fails his standardized exam, he should be **forced** to homeschool! ( Homeschool moms find this joke hilarious!)
4) Opportunities for specialized/advanced education that might not be available to home schoolers ie certain languages, College level dual enrollment, woodworking and metal working classes.
Guess what? In some states privately and home schooled children are free to participate **any** extracurricular and sports government school program they want. I have homeschooling friends in Utah who are doing this. They think of it as a "Parks and Recreation" type of program that just happens to be run out of the government school. Some counties in Pennsylvania do this.
By the way, nearly all of these sports and arts programs could be transfered to the Parks and Recreation Departments and then **all** children ( government, home, and privately schooled ) could participate.
My homeschooling friends children are also completely eligible for dual enrollment and AP courses of their choosing.
Of course the rational solution to this would be to allow any child of any age to take the GED. They they could matriculate in college and be eligible for all government and private scholarships. When bills lowering the age of the GED are introduced into legislatures it is fought vigorously by the NEA. Why? Because the bright kids would take the GED and there would be **massive** hemorrhage from the government school prisons.
If we had vouchers and tax credits, bright children could use this money to enroll in a **REAL** college. Imagine that !
But,,,again,,,In states allow privately and home schooled children to take these courses.
5) Clubs such as TSA, Drama, Fine arts.
As I pointed out, my Utah homeschooling friends participate in government school activities. They think of it as a Parks and Recreation program that is being run out of the government school.
All of these extracurricular and arts programs could easily be transfered to the Parks and Recreation Departments, and then **all** children could participate, not just the chosen few in government schools.
I agree it is condescending and wrong to single out African Americans as means to further the government school power trip. This is terrible lesson to teach, not only to black children but also to **all** children. All children are hurt by this manipulative and **self-serving** emotional ploy.
Dysfunction is the same regardless of color.
Ask Amelia; SoftballmominVA; Mosby; and others they will verify that my position has been about "ALL" Single parents that can't afford to homeschool their children.
This thread is not about me and I am insulted that you are trying to paint me as a racist.
Wintertime you need to tell the truth that I have posted the entire link (sometimes both links) about the issue of single parent homes several times
Do you really not see how your own post came across as a direct attack on Tired of Taxes’ entire life? Her choices in raising her children, the sacrifices she’s made, the lifestyle she lives?
I told you upthread that some of your posts were pretty offensive. Remember, homeschoolers are not the ones with the government subsidized lifestyle. We are used to being attacked by proponents of the current system who are threatened by our movement. It leaves us touchy and we say stupid stuff sometimes.
When you claim that truly caring parents would send their children to you to educate, that’s a slap in the face of every homeschooler because sometimes all we have is that hope that we cling to that all our sacrifices really make a difference. Homeschooling is almost never the easy way out. We fight our battles over and over and we can’t give up an inch because they don’t just want to reform things or give us more money, which is the solution to every government school problem. They want to ban us and force our kids to go into a system that many of us believe is morally wrong.
Not at all.
Do you see how wintertime's and others comments that "ALL" Public school personnel are Marxist's and useful idiots,
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1919111/posts?page=13#13
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2037917/posts?page=31#31
Are blatant attacks?
I told you upthread that some of your posts were pretty offensive. Remember, homeschoolers are not the ones with the government subsidized lifestyle.
The difference is that I go to work everyday and earn my paycheck. I am not on the public dole sitting around doing nothing.
When you claim that truly caring parents would send their children to you to educate, that’s a slap in the face of every homeschooler because sometimes all we have is that hope that we cling to that all our sacrifices really make a difference.
Yeah just because you don't get the joke doesn't mean every one else missed it. There are certain cultural icons/ touchstones that you can expect the average person to be aware of.
Let be absolutely clear I am not going to sit idly by while she spreads lies.
Thanks very much!
: )
You are the one who cheered on Twink's post #161. If you hadn't, I wouldn't have directed my response to you at all.
I am not the type of person who jumps to the conclusion that someone is racist. In fact, I find the term "racist" to be overused and too often misapplied. I tried walking away and coming back to read the post later. I tried imagining a person sitting and saying those words in a sympathetic tone. It didn't work. There was no other way to read those words. I let so many comments slide here; you have no idea. That one was sent directly to me, so I had to respond to both of you in kind.
When someone makes blanket statements and then says, "Call me a racist, I don't give a f," how else am I supposed to respond?
my position has been about "ALL" Single parents that can't afford to homeschool their children.
Alright then. As I've said in other posts, I know single parents who homeschool and are having success with homeschooling. But, I think everyone's position is that there always will be some children who will need government-funded education.
If this discussion is causing too much grief for you, all I ask is that, if you do delete my post #218 again, at least delete the post to which I was responding #161. Otherwise, it will appear that everyone here accepts what was said and no one argued against it.
Thank you in advance.
Who put you in charge of posting to me and then insisting that I not reply??? If and when I need an editor, I will certainly let you know but it won't be you.
Of whom or what would I be undertaking to be considerate? A system of "education" that depends on raping unwilling taxpayers to keep its gravy train rolling??? There are public school advocates here who do their respective bests on a conservative website to stick up for their schools. They generally feel no need to bully others or to edit them or to threaten them and they invite and participate in civil exchanges.
So long as you demand tax money and cop an antitaxpayer attitude, I don't give a rat's patoot whether you think I am clever or not.
What is your insight on Thomas Jefferson's observation that there is no worse tyranny than to require a man to finance the propagation of those ideas which he despises???
What is your teaching on the appropriateness of using captive "public school" inmates to propagate the "teachings" of Planned Barrenhood, GBLT agitprop, "fisting" techniques and other garbage that directly counters most religious and parental values??? Is it not surprising how rare such material is in parent-controlled private schools????
These questions you may regard as rhetorical and ignore them and thereby end the conversation between thee and me OR you may choose to answer them in which case you do not get to dictate that yours is the last word. This is not a public "school" classroom and you aren't the government paid commissar.
In New Haven, Connecticut, the (appointed) "public" skewel board has provided for the distribution of condoms to fifth graders. Our school refrains from such outrages and from "school based health clinics" where teenaged Jezebel can confidently arrange a "private" abortion on the QT lest mom and dad know what she is up to. Our tax dollars in action! Then there is the program by which families who receive food stamps send their kids to "public" "schools" hungry so that the "school" can feed them at taxpayer expense all because the family is too lazy to get out of bed and feed its own kids. Shall we go on????
Understandably, you choose to attack my sarcastic but accurate language I use rather than the substance of the manifest failure of your tax-funded "profession." Quelle surprise!
By way of partial explanation, "gummint" and "skewel" are phonetic spellings of those words as pronounced by former US Senator Ernest "Fritz" Hollings (Gummint skewel lackey-South Carolina) the best friend that incompetence posing as "education" ever had in the Senate.
Finally, I well recognize that there are competent public school teachers and even competent public schools but neither is the norm.
When I was growing up in New Haven, I counted as a friend one Dr. (Susan or Marian?) Sheridan, an aging former school superintendent and former New Haven Superintendent of Schools who was also a proprietor of the Iowa Test. My parents sent me at 14 to her public summer school (at James Hillhouse High School) to learn typing and astronomy to keep me busy over the summer of 1961. On the first day of the summer school, the astronomy teacher (secular humanist dim bulb and drone) informed me that Dr. Sheridan would see me in her office immediately after class.
Marveling that I must already be in trouble before the very first class, I reported to her office, popped my head in and asked what I had done to deserve this "honor." The prim elderly lady who was Dr. Sheridan replied: "you are the Jesuit prep school student, aren't you? Would you mind spending time here several days a week after class, describing Jesuit educational techniques? They have a very good reputation and maybe we can apply some of their wisdom here." She was a Unitarian, as far left as I am far right, but she was vitally interested in the permanent things that constitute actual education. In spite of her ideology and choice of churches, I found her delightful company and, when I had a driver's license two summers later, I used to pick her up and drive her home after I worked on the railroad just to continue our ongoing conversation. She did not merely imagine herself one of the best based on some BS bureaucratic "certification." She WAS ONE F THE VERY BEST EVER nationally and proved it each and every day of her professional life. Of course, that was so long ago that parents could, in good faith, send their kids to a public school even in New Haven. Dr. Sheridan was succeeded in the job of superintendent by one "Dr." Lawrence Paquin and I got the impression that she would not have objected if someone did New Haven kids the service of burning the oh-so politically correct incompetent Paquin at the stake.
Public education is what was offered in those days by Dr. Sheridan and is offered even in our own time, as I understand from an exchange of views with her, by public school teachers like SoftballMominVA. That's a fact. BTW, I started my exchanges with her in similarly testy fashion on both sides. I have come to respect her highly. She has never been so fragile as to need protection from disagreement. She has always given as well as she has gotten. Will you???
bttt
I would prefer to learn from and interact with any living mind with or without gummint documents to learning from any trained lackey of Horace Mann and John Dewey or their ilk.
What relevance DOES taking a driving test have??? Every licensed driver arrested for anything from speeding to vehicular homicide under the influence of booze or drugs has taken and passed at least one. So what?
I have never taken a CLEP or MSAT so I don't know whether they are relevant. I suspect that they are less relevant than is demonstrated competence in and mastery of subject matter. I did very well on SATs (1452) and LSATs (680??? IIRC) and so I am biased on those tests. I also exceeded 700 on Math and History achievement tests. Bear in mind that these scores were achieved back before the tests were culturally dumbed down and scores artificially inflated so as to be less embarrassing to the students public and private.
Did someone die and leave the State (the political hacks who are appointed by the elected political hacks) in charge of determining what constitutes competency??? Do you think that "certification" has worked as you say or is public school performance sinking like a millstone at all too many public schools? Be honest now. I know you can if you set your mind to it.
The guilds were medieval Catholic institutions. Puhleeze, do not confuse such an admirable and competent system as the guilds with public schools as we know them generally. Sullen, slack-jawed youth, utterly hostile to learning, are not much of a masterpiece upon which to justify a career. Master stone masons making their bones by building magnificent Gothic cathedrals or master woodcarvers ought not suffer being compared to the denizens of NEA.
Note that I accuse the system of being socialist. Many teachers are believers in socialism or worse. Many are not. All are paid out of extorted tax moneys, however.
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