WWII Germany and the Sturmgewehr 44 was the first Assault Rifle.
The defining characteristic was a new medium cartridge that fell between a rifle cartridge and a pistol cartridge.
Posted on 06/26/2008 6:52:28 PM PDT by LSUfan
Perhaps the single most exciting thing that happened at NDIA International Infantry & Joint Services Small Arms Systems Symposium 2008--away from the firing range, of course--was a confrontation between Jim Battaglini (Retired Marine Corps Maj. Gen. James R. Battaglini) of Colt Defense and U.S. Air Force Col. Robert Mattes, the director of the Comparative Test Office for the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Advanced Systems and Concepts, while Col. Mattes was giving a speech and promoting the idea of an open competition to determine the best infantry/assault carbine that can be supplied to U.S. military infantry warfighters. Specifically, the purpose of the competition would be to determine whether or not the Colt M4 Carbine is still the best carbine solution for our warfighters, and if there might be a better (i.e. more reliable and combat-effective) carbine out there M4.
Col. Mattes wasn't the first to promote the open-competition idea. In a short May 21 speech at the symposium, Bryan O'Leary, National Security Legislative Assistant for U.S. Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), also proffered the opinion that the Colt M4 Carbine should have to compete against other carbine candidates and thereby justifiy its continued existence as the standard U.S. Army and Marine Corps infantry/assault carbine. If it wins, it lives. If it doesn't, it dies (i.e. loses the contract). Pretty simple. O'Leary and Mattes might argue: what's Colt Defense afraid of? If the M4 is really the best carbine out there, it should be able to beat all the competing designs, no problem. Let's compete it and see.
Well, o.k., except let's look at it from Colt's perspective. Just like any other company, why would they want to take the risk of competing for a contract when they're the current contract holder, there might be a way to avoid it, and soldier satisfaction with the M4 is reportedly currently at approx. 89% (according to a U.S. Army report)? But this is soldiers' lives, you say. Well, that's true, but you have to prove that there's another weapon out there that's not only better, but appreciably better (i.e. more reliable and combat-effective) in order to justify the rather significant mass weapon-replacement costs, warfighter retraining costs, new-weapon production costs, supply chain issues, etc.
Now, while it's true that the M4 Carbine came in last in recent "extreme dust tests" when it went up against the HK416, FN Mk16 SCAR-Light (SCAR-L), and HK XM8 LAR (Lightweight Assault Rifle), it's questionable as to how combat-relevant those tests were, and how fairly those tests were conducted. I mean, let's face it, the Army has a problematic testing history (and that's putting it diplomaticly) when it comes to small arms and body armor, let alone higher-ticket items. Even so, the M4 represents the status quo and Colt is a favored contractor/DoD darling, so the M4 should hold the advantage in that regard.
By the way, it's DefenseReview's understanding that the original test protocol called for sand and dust, but this was changed to dust-only tests for some reason.
So, where does Defense Review come down on the open carbine competition issue? Well, we're actually for it, provided 1) the testing is conducted honestly, fairly and openly, 2) is videotaped at every step for later review, and 3) has civilian oversight (or some other type of trustworthy, non-Army oversight).
If the M4 is really the best assault/infantry carbine out there, it should be able to beat all comers, and Colt Defense shouldn't have anything to worry about. Our warfighters deserve the best weapon available, so may the best weapon win. That said, we believe that any/all testing/competing should be done in conditions that are as combat-relevant and combat-realistic as possible. Part of the testing should definitely be operational testing (OT) by infantry warfighters, including U.S. Army general infantry, Rangers, and Marines--but not necessarily limited to those three groups. Also, the weapon that should be competed is the true-full-auto-capable M4A1 Carbine with semi-auto and full-auto settings, not the M4 Carbine. The M4 Carbine's 3-round burst was a really stupid idea from the get-go, and needs to go away. The M4's trigger is lousy and not condusive to good marksmanship. The M4A1 is a much smarter idea and its trigger is far superior. If you don't believe me, ask members of the U.S. Army Asymmetric Warfare Group (AWG). Don't take my word for it.
By the way, another proponent of open competition is Jim Schatz, former military sales manager for HK Defense (Heckler & Koch Defense) and vocal promoter of the the HK XM8 development program. Mr. Schatz, now working for the Technical Support Working Group, a test and evaluation agency under DoD (Department of Defense), gave a presentation at the symposium titled Time for a Change - U.S. "Incremental" Small Arms Fielding: Failures and Solutions. Needless to say, Mr. Schatz is not an M4 proponent, nor is he very satisfied with the U.S. military small arms development, procurement and adoption system. He believes its broken, and DefenseReview agrees. Schatz isn't stupid. The U.S. military small arms development and procurement system is, excuse our language, a total cluster#### (military term). Every independent analyst we've ever spoken with that's well-versed on the topic (U.S. military small arms development and procurement system), to a man, agrees that the system's broken, corrupt, counterproductive, pick your own negative adjectives. It's bad. Real bad.
DefenseReview spoke with Mr. Schatz after the symposium and tried to get a written copy of his presentation for at least private review and analysis. We were unsuccessful, however.
Defense Review did, however, get to speak with Mr. Battaglini at the end of the symposium about his confrontation with Col. Mattes, and got his take on things. Battaglini believes in his product (the M4 Carbine), and feels like Colt Defense is being, essentially, ganged up on, and the M4 is being unfairly challenged, considering what Colt contends to be tremendous success in combat and overwhelming end-user satisfaction. On a personal note, I respect Mr. Battaglini for confronting Col. Mattes during Mattes' speech. Mr. Battaglini believes in his product and was defending it, just like any good corporate officer should. Can't knock him for it. We found Mr. Battaglini to be warm, friendly, and generally likeable when we spoke with him at the symposium.
So, is the M4 Carbine being treated unfairly? Maybe, maybe not. DefRev's going to analyze the situation and get back to you on it. Whatever the case, the next 1-1.5 years is going to be interesting for Colt Defense and the M4. The M4's going to be fighting for its life. In addition to potentially having to compete against gas piston/op-rod-driven carbines like the FN SCAR, HK 416, etc., Colt apparently is going to have to turn over the M4 technical data package (TDP) rights to the Army in 2009, and the Army may let other companies compete for future M4 contracts, not exactly a great confluence of events for Colt. The U.S. Army has budgeted $313M in M4 contracts for fiscal years 2010-2013.
That being the case, it's DefenseReview's opinion that Colt should seriously consider updating/improving the M4 with recent hardware and technologies that can bring the M4 Carbine into the 21st Century, optimize the M4's direct-gas-impingement operating system, and give it the best chance to win any future open carbine competition against the HK416, the FN SCAR-L, and any other gas piston/op-rod-driven carbine out there. We believe we know exactly what modifcations/improvements need to be made. However, even if we're right, it may be difficult for Colt to make any changes to the M4, at least in the near term. Since the M4 is made to a U.S. military specification and according to an exacting TDP (technical data package), even if Colt were willing to make changes to the weapon, they woud have to navigate through the military bureaucracy to do so. Specifically, they would have to make an engineering change proposal (ECP) for each and every change, and the government would have to agree to it. This is easier said than done, but we believe it needs to be done. Defense Review may discuss our recommended M4 mods/improvements in a subsequent article. We're not sure whether or not we should make these recommendations public, yet, based on some things that are currently going on behind the scenes.
If worse comes to worse for Colt Defense, they've got their own gas piston/op-rod select-fire AR carbine/SBR/subcarbine solution that's supposedly superior to the HK416, according to rumor (i.e. unconfirmed/unverified reports). It's Defense Review's understanding that Colt's gas-piston-driven system was competed in the 2004 SCAR competition and did quite well (unconfirmed/unverified). Colt's gas-piston/op-rod-driven SCAR candidate, which we believe was the Colt M5 Gas Piston Carbine (unconfirmed/unverified) was reportedly very reliable (unconfirmed/unverified). DefRev's seen and handled the Colt LE1020 a.k.a. Colt LE 1020 (at SHOT Show and other shows), which is the semi-automatic (semi-auto) version of the Colt SCAR candidate, and the system looks solid. We've seen the weapon broken down and the individual piston/op-rod components. The late Mike LaPlante (Michael LaPlante) showed us the gun. Mike was a nice man.
So, that's it for now.
WWII Germany and the Sturmgewehr 44 was the first Assault Rifle.
The defining characteristic was a new medium cartridge that fell between a rifle cartridge and a pistol cartridge.
>>The theory is that a wounded soldier is more of a liability on the battlefield than a dead one. He can’t fight effectively, and he’ll slow everyone else down. A dead soldier just gets left behind. FWIW.
Like most theories, they fail when put to the most stringent tests. Ask any WWII vet what he thinks the effectiveness is of a wounded vs. dead enemy soldier.
Kill them all, let God sort them out.
Not true. Replace the automatic sear with a semi-automatic sear and the M4/M16 is legal again.
Unless Obama brings back the "Five Deadly Sins" of an eeeeeevil assault rifle: 1) detachable magazine 2) pistol grip 3) bayonet lug 4) flash supressor 5) folding stock.
Doesn't work. For cased rounds, the case removes most of the heat very quickly by ejecting the hot case. For caseless rounds, tremendous heat stays in the chamber, which cannot dissapate that heat fast enough for reliable long-burst full-auto use.
Fired an XM8 in 6.5 Grendel at SHOT. Incredible! 6.5 Grendel is a small round that fits the 5.56 form factor and has better downrange accuracy and ENERGY than 7.62 NATO!
Not true. The BATFE will not allow that platform to be sold without several parts being changed to "semi-auto" versions, plus part of the receiver must be shaped to block function of said auto-sear. You can get in a lot of trouble for having an AR15 without the auto sear but with the other full-auto parts and milled-out receiver block.
I would love some 5.56 surplus for my mini 14. It is getting to the point where it is over $1.00 per round.
The 6.5 Grendel is too effective. It will result in an immediate increase in corpses with an equal reduction in wounded enemy fighters.
No soldier on foot patrol in the jungle is going to spray and pray unless he’s receiving return fire. Ammo in the field is a highly prized commodity and delivery of replacement can be hours away.
Basically the fire control group. Nothing said about milled receivers.
I am agreeing with you that I was wrong.
I would suggest consulting an attorney before attempting such a conversion.
No, that's the beauty of it. It's such a wind cheater that at 600 meters, it is better, stronger and flatter than 7.62NATO/308WIN!
Check up on it, it's most excellent. Surprisingly, this is very much like the round they originally wanted for M1 Garand, but we had too much 30.06 in stock, so they had a situation then like we have now with 5.56!
CALL A LAWYER! There is a very good 2d Ammendment guy in Jacksonville. Forgot his name. NRA would have it.
You are making my point. Ambushes of foot patrols by hidden Vietcong occurred quite often in Vietnam.
Not if I’m president. I’ll have 3/4 of the BATF behind bars doing hard time and M14s/M16s out to law abiding civilians with 2, 1000 rounds of Lake City to each CMP owning M14/M16 citizen.
There are some amongst us that would argue the concept was a genuinely American one...granted the Germans coined the term Sturmgeweher and the weapons were designed for two very different roles, but when it came to actual battlefield usage, there really wasn't much difference...
HA! No thanks.
Honestly, I never had a problem with my M4, neither did any of my Soldiers. Through thick and thin that thing performed very well. Is there anything better out there? I have no doubt. Is it worth the outrageous sums of cash that we'd have to spend to replace not only the M4 but all the repair kits, spare parts, gauging equipment, etc etc (and possibly even the ammo it fires)? I kinda doubt it.
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