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John McCain's Vietnam jailer backs him
The Australian ^ | June 24, 2008

Posted on 06/23/2008 9:25:41 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

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Yes, I'm sure you fed them filet mignon and champagne while they were your "guests" in Hanoi. Contact Daily Kos, they'll probably believe you!
1 posted on 06/23/2008 9:25:41 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Further evidence that Juan McCain is the Manchurian Candidate. He gets elected and his programming gets activated....

Flame Suit ON....

2 posted on 06/23/2008 9:28:00 PM PDT by TheBattman (Vote your conscience, or don't complain about RINOs!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There is no doubt they were tortured although I read that after Ho Chi Minh died, they began to be treated better.


3 posted on 06/23/2008 9:29:34 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Speaking to the BBC from Haiphong, Tran Trong Duyet also insisted that Senator McCain's assertions that he was tortured during his time at the prison were lies, and that no one held there was ever subjected to torture.

If course, which explains why he got back and couldn't even raise his arm over his head.

4 posted on 06/23/2008 9:34:01 PM PDT by Arguendo
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To: TheBattman
There are a thousand ways of defending your position, but relying on the outrageous lies of that Charlie Commie bastard camp officer reveals a lot about you. So you agree with him that no American was tortured in the Hanoi Hilton?

BTW Your Flame Suit won't protect you from my contempt rays.

5 posted on 06/23/2008 9:35:19 PM PDT by SolidWood (Refusal to vote for McCain is active support of Obama. Period.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No one who has come upon the corpse of a former captive of the VC or NVA would ever believe the Communist bastards didn’t torture captives.

No one!

It makes me sick to think of the bullshit we’re putting our warriors though and the care we’re giving to “captives” - yet STILL the Left and World are being critical of us!

Where were this bastards in the 60’s and 70’s, when it was OUR guys being tortured?


6 posted on 06/23/2008 9:35:40 PM PDT by river rat (Semper Fi - You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: TheBattman

I hope you are trying to be funny: Tell me, do you think you could go through over 1,900 days of unremitting physical and psychological torture?


7 posted on 06/23/2008 9:39:12 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (McCain could never convince me to vote for him. Only the Marxist Obama can!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Dear God, why are they printing this crap?

D**n Commies...

I honestly don’t know what world I’m living in anymore when a Communist prison guard gets press for their lies and propaganda. What is this like some kind of reverse psychology? The commie would vote for him? They know full well that this type of a story is intended to throw support over to Obama - the REAL marxist/communist.

And, you’re right - the left is going to eat this up and believe every word coming from these $&*#*%@#’s mouths (fill in the characters with the expletive of your choice). Makes me want to scream, I tell ya!

Seriously, is it just me, or is this election much worse than others in the past - as far as the propaganda and rhetoric, and the media? The first real election I remember was Reagan - were the elections back in the late 60s and early 70s like this?

[Apologies for the foul language, I know it’s not really lady-like, but, well, I’m seriously upset by this...]


8 posted on 06/23/2008 9:41:19 PM PDT by LibertyRocks (My Blog - http://libertyrocks.wordpress.com & NEW http://exposingobama.wordpress.com)
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To: TheBattman

Further evidence that Juan McCain is the Manchurian Candidate. He gets elected and his programming gets activated....

Two thoughts - first, WTF’s with that “person” the jailer, - he’d vote for McCain “if he could” THEN calls him a liar??? What am I missing here?

second, if anyone in this election’s a Mancurian candidate, we should all know by now which one THAT is......


9 posted on 06/23/2008 9:42:36 PM PDT by llandres (I'd rather be alive and bankrupt than dead and solvent)
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To: SolidWood

your tagline tells it like it is.


10 posted on 06/23/2008 9:44:26 PM PDT by llandres (I'd rather be alive and bankrupt than dead and solvent)
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To: TheBattman

C’mon... be serious for just a moment! Don’t you see through the propaganda at all?

This is straight out of their playbook! Further people’s wildest ideas and conspiracy theories about McCain by doing this, and in effect support the REAL communist/marxist candidate - Obama...

I have my doubts about McCain - he supports too many socialist inspired programs for my taste personally, but it’s pretty clear who the died in the wool radical marxist/communist is in this election. Don’t fall for their crap...


11 posted on 06/23/2008 9:44:41 PM PDT by LibertyRocks (My Blog - http://libertyrocks.wordpress.com & NEW http://exposingobama.wordpress.com)
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To: LibertyRocks

“Seriously, is it just me, or is this election much worse than others in the past”

No, it’s not just you - this one is, by far, the worst ever.


12 posted on 06/23/2008 9:49:00 PM PDT by llandres (I'd rather be alive and bankrupt than dead and solvent)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All

McCain on lower right



In August of 1968, a program of vigorous torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[84][79] Teeth and bones were broken again, as was McCain's spirit; the beginning of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards.[79] After four days of this, McCain signed and taped[94] an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said, in part, "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors."[79] He used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal that the statement was forced.[89]. Source

Also see:
John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account
By John S. McCain III, Lieut. Commander, U.S. Navy;
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html

__________________________________________________________

OK, so that's Senator McCain's story. Now here's what Obama's pal Bill Ayers and his slime ball friends were up to during this same time period...

November 22, 1970 -- During a fund-raising tour for GI deserters, Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Black Panthers, Jane Fonda is quoted in the Detroit Free Press as telling a University of Michigan audience: "I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would someday become communist," and "The peace proposal of the Viet Cong is the only honorable, just, possible way to achieve peace in Vietnam."
Source: http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=Timeline

Fonda made the following statement at the University of Texas: "We've got to establish a Socialist economic structure that will limit private profit-oriented businesses. Whether the transition is peaceful depends on the way our present governmental leaders react. We must commit our lives to this transition ...... We should be very proud of our new breed of soldier. It's not organized but it's mutiny, and they have every right."
--Karen Elliott Dallas Morning News December 11, 1971

From 1972: "I am not a do-gooder, I am a revolutionary. A revolutionary woman."

Source for most of the Jane Fonda material:
http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

_________________________________________________

Obama's pal and associate, the "english teacher", as he described him in a recent debate, Bill Ayers and his communist revolutionary Weather Underground terrorist organization:

"It was at the Chicago home of [Bill] Ayers and [Bernardine] Dohrn that Obama, then an up-and-coming 'community organizer,' had his political coming out party in 1995. Not content with this rite of passage in Lefty World — where unrepentant terrorists are regarded as progressive luminaries, still working 'only to educate' — both Obamas tended to the relationship with the Ayers."
Source: The Company He Keeps
Meet Obama’s circle: The same old America-hating Left
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YThjYTU1ZDBjNmQ2YzcwNzU1MmYwN2JiMWY0ZGI0NDA=&w=MA==

Allies in War
By David Horowitz
FrontPageMagazine.com | Monday, September 17, 2001:

ON THE MORNING OF THE ATTACKS on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, along with a million other readers of the New York Times including many who would never be able to read the paper again, I opened its pages to be confronted by a color photo showing a middle-aged couple holding hands and affecting a defiant look at the camera. The article was headlined in an irony that could not have been more poignant, "No Regrets For A Love Of Explosives."

The couple pictured were Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, former leaders of the 1960s’ Weather Underground, America’s first terrorist cult. One of their bombing targets, as it happened, was the Pentagon.

"I don’t regret setting bombs," Ayers was quoted in the opening line of the Times profile; "I feel we didn’t do enough."

In 1969, Ayers and his wife convened a "War Council" in Flint Michigan, whose purpose was to launch a military front inside the United States with the purpose of helping Third World [Maoist-communist] revolutionaries conquer and destroy it.

Taking charge of the podium, dressed in high-heeled boots and a leather mini-skirt – her signature uniform – Dorhn incited the assembled radicals to join the war against "Amerikkka" and create chaos and destruction in the "belly of the beast."

Her voice rising to a fevered pitch, Dohrn raised three fingers in a "fork salute" to mass murderer Charles Manson whom she proposed as a symbol to her troops. Referring to the helpless victims of the Manson Family as the "Tate Eight" (the most famous was actress Sharon Tate) Dohrn shouted:

"Dig It. First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild!"

(big snip)

Today William Ayers is not merely an author favored by the New York Times, but a Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

His Lady Macbeth [Bernardine Dohrn] is not merely a lawyer, but a member of the American Bar Association’s governing elite, as well as the director of Northwestern University’s Children and Family Justice Center.
[it's true! see: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/aclu/]

Article: Allies in War -by David Horowitz
FrontPageMagazine.com | Monday, September 17, 2001
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=63512670-BF7C-42A0-B41D-5D0FB9E09C09

The Center for Public Intellectuals & The University of Illinois-Chicago (UIC)
April 19th-20th, 2002, Conference

[Participants include: William/Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, Sen Barack Obama]

April 19th-20th, 2002
Chicago Illini Union
828 S. Wolcott

This conference is part of the Center's mission of helping to create a more engaged civil society, working towards social change, fostering coalitions between theorists and activists, and combating anti-intellectualism in contemporary culture. It will be both a celebration of ideas and a rigorous examination of the roles and responsibilities that intellectuals play in society.

I. Why Do Ideas Matter? (a keynote panel)

We introduce the “meta” theme of the conference by hearing “success stories” from diverse voices discussing their experiences intervening intellectually.

Timuel Black, Chicago activist; Prof. Emeritus, City Colleges of Chicago
Lonnie Bunch, President, Chicago Historical Society
Bernardine Dohrn, Northwestern University Law School, Children and Family Justice Center
Gerald Graff, UIC, College of Liberal Arts & Sciences
Richard Rorty, Stanford University, Philosophy

III. Lunch and Public Encounters

Alternative breakout tours led by Chicago activists. Tours of Bronzeville and other communities, and visits to organizations that are working on partnering theorists with activists.

IV. Intellectuals in Times of Crisis
Experiences and applications of intellectual work in urgent situations.

William Ayers, UIC, College of Education; author of Fugitive Days
Douglass Cassel, Northwestern University, Center for International Human Rights
Cathy Cohen, University of Chicago, Political Science
Salim Muwakkil, Chicago Tribune; In These Times
Barack Obama, Illinois State Senator
Barbara Ransby, UIC, African-American Studies (moderator)

The Center for Public Intellectuals
University of Illinois-Chicago (UIC):
http://www.uic.edu/classes/las/las400/conferencealt.htm

"In July 1969, [Bernardine] Dohrn, Eleanor Raskin, Dianne Donghi, Peter Clapp, David Millstone and Diana Oughton, all representing 'Weatherman', as Dohrn's faction was now called, traveled to Cuba and met with representatives of the North Vietnamese and Cuban governments."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardine_Dohrn

From David Horowitz's FrontPageMag.com/DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
"FBI files from 1976, recently made public under the Freedom of Information Act, confirm the connections between Weatherman, Havana, and Moscow. Weatherman leaders like Mark Rudd traveled illegally to Havana in 1968 to engage in terrorist training. There, camps set up by Soviet KGB Colonel Vadim Kotchergine were educating Westerners both in Marxist philosophy and urban warfare."
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6808

July 27, 1970: The United States Army base at The Presidio in San Francisco is bombed on the 11th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution. [NYTimes, 7/27/70] :
Chronology of Weather Underground attacks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)#Chronology_of_events

Weather Underground Organization linked to North Vietnamese and Cuban governments, KGB
[420 pages in all on pdf]

Source: FBI, via Freedom of Information Act

In 1976, the FBI's Chicago Field Office prepared a summary which described the activities of the Weather Underground Organization, also known as Weathermen. This organization described itself as a revolutionary organization of communist men and women. The FBI's analysis of its motivations, beliefs, and international travels are outlined in this summary.

[some excerpts from the 1976 report linking the organization to foreign governments...]

From the moment in October, 1967, when Radio Hanoi announced the formation of the South Vietnamese Peoples Committee for Solidarity with American People (by the National Liberation Front (NLF), the political arm of the Viet Cong) with the objective of establishing relations with "progressive organizations and individuals in the United States," a political front was enjoined in behalf of the national interests of the Democratic Republic of North Vietnam (DRV) (and the NLF), the purpose of which was to intensify the anti-war sentiment in the United States. From the initial meeting between the Vietnamese and leading anti-war activists held in Bratislava, Czechoslovakia, in November, 1967, to the July, 1969, meeting with leading Weatherpeople held in Havana, Cuba, the influence of Vietnamese representatives on the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) leadership became sharply pronounced. At the same time, the example of the Cuban revolution became the guide for the emerging American student revolutionary. With an increasing number of trips to Havana where the youthful revolutionary could learn at first hand how to create revolution, the influence of Cuba on the developing WUO [Weather Underground Organization] was enormous.

The WUO obtained their revolutionary methodology from the Cubans and Vietnamese and, importantly, put into practice what they had learned from them. The Weathermen, of course, did not just happen to come about during the June, 1969, SDS National Convention. They fully admit their radical heritage began during experiences gained in SDS and as shown herein their international contacts with representatives of the DRV and NLF which began in 1967 increased their anti-imperialist consciousness so that by 1969 they had solidified their revolutionary commitment to include the maximum optimum of armed struggle. So, when Huynh Van Ba, representative of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of Vietnam (PRG), instructed the WUO to "look for the person who fights hardest against the cops...Don't look for the one who says the best thing. Look for the one who fights," the campus base was forgotten and the WUO began to recruit the greasers and assorted oddments who had displayed their hatred of authority in direct combat with police.
http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/weather.htm

From David Horowitz's FrontPageMag.com/DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
March 6, 1970: "three members of the Weather Underground accidentally killed themselves in a Manhattan townhouse while attempting to build a powerful bomb they had intended to plant at a social dance in Fort Dix, New Jersey -- an event that was to be attended by U.S. Army soldiers. Hundreds of lives could have been lost had the plot been successfully executed."
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6808

"The bomb was intended to be planted at a non-commissioned officer's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey.
The bomb was packed with nails to inflict maximum casualties upon detonation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)#Chronology_of_events

Bill Ayers TODAY (April 6, 2008), from his own red communist star-headed website, begging to debate communism vs capitalism with Sean Hannity and STILL calling for revolution!

"Imperialism. I’m against it, and if Sean Hannity and others were honest, this is the ground they would fight me on. Capitalism played its role historically and is exhausted as a force for progress: built on exploitation, theft, conquest, war, and racism, capitalism and imperialism must be defeated and a world revolution—a revolution against war and racism and materialism, a revolution based on human solidarity and love, cooperation and the common good —must win.

We begin by releasing our most hopeful dreams and our most radical imaginations: a better world is both possible and necessary.

Source: http://billayers.wordpress.com/2008/04/page/2/

'Guilty as hell, free as a bird—America is a great country,' he [Ayers] said."
August 2001, Chicago Magazine (article: No Regrets)
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2001/No-Regrets/

13 posted on 06/23/2008 9:50:26 PM PDT by ETL
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To: river rat
I read a book by Erich Hartmann, the all time ace of aces. He was captured by the Communists after WWII and was regularly tortured.

A strange thing is he says he was never beaten. They had a law which said they couldn't beat prisoners so they didn't. Of course torturing is even worse.

Now I suspect the Vietnamese had no rules at all except maybe keep them alive as long as it benefited them to do so.

14 posted on 06/23/2008 9:51:21 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: TheBattman; All
Image and video hosting by TinyPic Where Are The Rest? Charlie's Lying! They Were So Butchered-up They Were MURDERED!!!
15 posted on 06/23/2008 9:57:17 PM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: Arguendo
If course, which explains why he got back and couldn't even raise his arm over his head.

and negates all the other testimonies from the other officers that were held prisoner with him - and also were subject to torture.

So who do we believe = this guard or one of our most decorated and admired military men, the man that shared a cell and torture with McCain: Col. Day, the most decorated service man since Gen. Douglas MacArthur, with more than 70 medals?

excerpts of what Col. Day says:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/08/mccains-former-hanoi-cell-mate-describes-character-in-deplorable-conditions/

"Day said the first time he saw McCain, he believed the future senator was close to death and that the only reason for the chance encounter was part of a Vietnamese ploy to break the morale of U.S. servicemen already in captivity.

“I took one look at him, and my brain instantly said, ‘They dropped this guy off on me to claim that we let him die,’” Day said. “He was just emaciated. Very, very skinny, in this full body cast. Just filthy.”

The U.S. soldiers were held sometimes five to a cell, barely big enough for two.

“He had this gimpy knee where he’d busted his knee, this arm had been fractured in a couple places, he’d been bayoneted in the leg, this arm was out at the shoulder and, in fact, during that time it was out at the shoulder so long it wore a hole in this bone,” Day said.

During captivity, they were tortured mercilessly, Day said, describing one tactic that McCain has also recalled.

“They roped me under the arms, tied my hands behind my back, ran another rope to that, got me up on a chair, threw that rope up over a rafter and jerked the chair out from under me and your own weight just tears your body apart,” he said.

Day’s broken arm was re-broken during torture so he would never fly again. McCain played physical therapist.

“John said, ‘Well we’ll gather up some bamboo, and he was in a bandage on his leg at that time. So I got some strips of bamboo, smuggled them into the room, John put his foot in my arm pit and pulled on my wrist ’till we could get the bone forced back down … it wasn’t exactly perfect but it worked out he got it back to where it was functional,” Day said.

...“John would help me. … John would pull my fingers out straight. They would just instantly recurl. And finally, one morning, I had just the slightest bit of movement in this hand — finger — and we both cried,” Day said.

McCain, whose military record was released to the Associated Press on Wednesday, received 17 commendations over his career from 1951-81. They included the Silver Star for his conduct in captivity. He also received the Legion of Merit, the Distinguished Flying Cross and a Bronze Star.

Day said by any humane standard, McCain would have been a good candidate for early release from the camp, but that wasn’t in his playbook.

“It also wasn’t in his playbook to die. In fact he quickly became a leader.”

Can you picture obamiation in those circumstances?

16 posted on 06/23/2008 10:08:02 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (No trees were killed in sending this message but a large number of electrons were terrible agitated)
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To: yarddog
There is no doubt they were tortured although ...

although - take it from the horses mouth...Col. Day, the most decorated service man since MacArthur - and McCain's cell mate...

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/08/mccains-former-hanoi-cell-mate-describes-character-in-deplorable-conditions/

17 posted on 06/23/2008 10:14:46 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (No trees were killed in sending this message but a large number of electrons were terrible agitated)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

FFE 2 ID. Your six is covered.


18 posted on 06/23/2008 10:16:12 PM PDT by Lumper20
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To: TheBattman
“Further evidence that Juan McCain is the Manchurian Candidate. He gets elected and his programming gets activated....”

did you forget the sarq or are you just ignorant?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/08/mccains-former-hanoi-cell-mate-describes-character-in-deplorable-conditions/

19 posted on 06/23/2008 10:16:27 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (No trees were killed in sending this message but a large number of electrons were terrible agitated)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
REPUBLICAN US presidential candidate John McCain has got some unexpected support from his former Vietnam War jailer, who said he would vote for the former navy pilot if he could.

Isn't that special?

NOT!


20 posted on 06/23/2008 10:44:23 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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