Posted on 06/23/2008 4:13:28 PM PDT by Man50D
Why NTU Supports the FairTax:
The Fair Tax Act would promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.
Legislative Status:
The FairTax has been reintroduced for the 110th Congress. It is H.R. 25 in the House and S. 1025 in the Senate. NTU has endorsed the FairTax since 1998 and continues to work for its adoption
Benefits of the FairTax:
The FairTax plan brings fairness, transparency, and efficiency to our unfair, complex, and confusing Tax Code.
The FairTax rewards job creation, hard work, and individual responsibility. By doing away with payroll taxes, companies can afford to hire more employees and outsourcing looks less attractive. By taxing consumption instead of income, individuals are provided with a strong incentive to work hard because they keep more of what they earn. By taxing spending, the FairTax allows us to control how much tax we pay depending on our individual lifestyle choices.
The FairTax ensures that all Americans pay their fair share of taxes. The IRS currently admits to a 25 percent non-compliance rate with the Tax Code, often done unintentionally. By placing the tax at the point of sale, no individual or special interest group could evade taxes with the help of an expensive tax attorney or well-heeled lobbyist. Furthermore, we could stop making criminals out of ordinary Americans who prepare their tax returns incorrectly by mistake.
How the Plan Works:
The FairTax proposal is a comprehensive revenue plan that would eliminate most major federal income and payroll taxes, including personal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes.
(Excerpt) Read more at ntu.org ...
I was looking forward to addressing some of this poster's more objectionable claims but it seems he's flown the coop. Welcome back to the FT wars Kev.
The nonsense about the FT addressing congressional spending is always one of the newby's first protests. As you well know it always goes away shortly after they realize they aren't dealing with corpses laden with flies over here.
Only the American voters can do that -- if they'd get off their lazy butts, do some research to find out who the big congrssional spenders are, and vote their tails out of office.
It sure is. And it will remain one until you and several others on this forum find out what the hell you're talking about. As of now, you haven't the slightest idea -- and won't learn.
Bye (I hope).
Not staying long... it's clear the "antis" are just peddling the same old tripe, though.
Oh? Just 13,000 pages with accompanying 50,000 pages of interpretation?What interpretation?
Must be a breeze to read.None of the U.S. Code is easy to read - Title 26 or any of the other titles. So what?
Why don't you post the compendious little thing?I've posted a link to it. It's 8,300 pages not 67,000. 8,300 is bad enough - why lie about it? Contrary to popular belief, the FairTax bill doesn't repeal the entire tax code - only 4 of current 11 subtitles. When you remove the parts the FairTax bill repeals it's still 2,800 before you even add the FairTax stuff!
Still no answer?
It isn’t just the code. It’s the code and Treasury regs and court cases and hundreds of articles that pros need to interpret the damn thing.
http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Internal_Revenue_Code_-_Index
http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Treasury_Regulations_-_Index
http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Tax_Research_Resources
http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Topical_Articles
It isn’t just the code. It’s the code and Treasury regs and court cases and hundreds of articles that pros need to interpret the damn thing.You don't think there would be regulations under the FairTax? Go to the text of the bill and search for "regulation" and get back to me. Besides, the regulations are just "the official interpretation of the IRC by the U.S. Department of the Treasury." Treasury would have an official interpretation of the FairTax, too.
Why do people have to spend thousands of dollars for attorneys and life insurance to protect their estates?
Why is a CMO a taxable entity? Why do we have low income housing credits and gas mining credits. Why do we have depletion and depreciation schedules?
Yeah there may be court cases under the FT. But why would they be complicated on a par with the current code?
I is. It's trying to figure it out that's the problem.That easy.
Hell, just trying to understand the myriad types of retirement plans UNDER the CODE is a full time job for a lot of people. What sort of twisted mind decided that school teachers should have a different tax code from factory workers?I believe it was the states. They only participate in Social Security voluntarily. (BTW, how is the FairTax going to deal with people not participating in Social Security - which includes a large number of state employees. Seems like they will be paying for SS but not getting it.)
Who came up with the idea of a 501 c 3?Who came up with the idea of non-profits under the FairTax? What's the difference?
Why can't I give a donation to a needy family in my neighborhood and deduct it?Why can't you buy something tax free under the FairTax if you are going to give it to the needy family in your neighborhood?
Why do people have to spend thousands of dollars for attorneys and life insurance to protect their estates?Because they save more money than they spend. People will be spending plenty to try to avoid the FairTax.
Why is a CMO a taxable entity?I don't know. I have nothing to do with them so I don't really care. Do you really care? There is a lot of the tax code that has absolutely no bearing on me. Does the fact that it's there make my taxes more complicated?
Why do we have low income housing credits and gas mining credits.Why does the FairTax have the prebate. And what is gas mining?
Why do we have depletion and depreciation schedules?To try and determine income. They're a pain in the ass and the Flat Tax gets rid of them.
Yeah there may be court cases under the FT. But why would they be complicated on a par with the current code?Because Americans are ingenious when it comes to gaming any tax system.
I'm not talking about that. Do you contribute to a retirement plan? 401K?, 403b?, IRA, Roth, pension, other?
Why the hell are there so many kinds? How many anti's on this board profit from them?
Who came up with the idea of non-profits under the FairTax? What's the difference?
I can only give to an entity that has the king's blessing in order to receive favorable tax treatment under the IRS. Under the FT it doesn't matter. THAT's the difference.
Why can't you buy something tax free under the FairTax if you are going to give it to the needy family in your neighborhood?
Because I'm using pre tax dollars. What if I give away a used car that I'm finished with?
Because they save more money than they spend
So it's okay with you that a person works his whole life and then has to spend a lot of money to protect what he and he alone created. Not the spirit of America that I grew up in. Of course many people profit from that situation and I'm sure some are on this board protecting their turf.
There is a lot of the tax code that has absolutely no bearing on me.
If there was a lot of that in HR 25 you'd be screaming about how complicated it is.
Why does the FairTax have the prebate. And what is gas mining?
Discussed a thousand times. To placate the nannies. Gas mining is the extraction of natural gas and coal seam methane for commercial use. A huge tax shelter industry. I'm sure a lot of the people in that industry fund ringers to come online and post against the FT day after day. I would if I were them.
the Flat Tax gets rid of them.
So what is the Flat Tax bill and how many sponsors does it have? How large is the Flat Tax organization on a grass roots basis?
Americans are ingenious
They sure are. They thought up the FairTax didn't they?
Funding sure can be cut to the bone for these five years. It’s called the power of the vote.More Fairtax Xanadu
Funding sure can be cut to the bone for these five years. It’s called the power of the vote.Obama could be the next president, that's also power of the vote. What's your point?
my point is that your argument that the government will install a fair tax and keep an income tax is ridiculous.Where exactly did I make the argument they "will"?
The people WILL NOT put up with it.Right, like nobody puts up with both in any states.
Tour arguments boil down to fear and as long as people live in fear like the government wants us to things will always stay the same.
I'm not talking about that. Do you contribute to a retirement plan? 401K?, 403b?, IRA, Roth, pension, other?I have a couple of retirement accounts - both set up by my employer. I've had others in previous jobs. It's never been a source of confusion and I've never found it that complex. The only ones who have profited from my retirement plans are the mutual fund companies and the businesses they invested my money in. I guess I could pay someone to give me some advice but that would really be more about what investments are going to be best for me in my current situation. I think that's what most people pay for - the tax advice is just a small part of it. So, IMO, most complexity in retirement plans comes from the investing, not the actual plan or the tax implications. You're not suggesting there won't be financial advisors under the FairTax, are you. There certainly will be (and they will charge the FairTax on their service).
Why the hell are there so many kinds? How many anti's on this board profit from them?
Who came up with the idea of non-profits under the FairTax? What's the difference?I can only give to an entity that has the king's blessing in order to receive favorable tax treatment under the IRS. Under the FT it doesn't matter. THAT's the difference.
Yeah, the FairTax eliminates the need to get the king's blessing by making all non-profits pay the FairTax on their purchases that aren't for resale. The only advantage they have is the don't have to pay FairTax on their employee's wages. Gee, Thanks. Non-profits fare much better under the current system than the FairTax.
When you buy something under the FairTax, you pay the tax. It's after tax. Even if it's a used car, you essentially prepaid the tax on the consumption of that car when you bought it new. You haven't avoided the tax by giving the car away.Why can't you buy something tax free under the FairTax if you are going to give it to the needy family in your neighborhood?Because I'm using pre tax dollars. What if I give away a used car that I'm finished with?
The FairTax avoids this problem by giving retired people no advantages - particularly those that have already paid taxes on their retirement. The really get the shaft. The best thing they could do under the FairTax is take their money and move to Costa Rica. That's not the spirit of America that I grew up in.Because they save more money than they spendSo it's okay with you that a person works his whole life and then has to spend a lot of money to protect what he and he alone created. Not the spirit of America that I grew up in. Of course many people profit from that situation and I'm sure some are on this board protecting their turf.
As you FairTaxers are so eager to point out, the current system started out simple. Over time it got more and more complicated. Over time the FairTax would get more and more complicated. (You don't think the politicians and lobbyists are just going to play tiddlywinks all day long, do you?)There is a lot of the tax code that has absolutely no bearing on me.If there was a lot of that in HR 25 you'd be screaming about how complicated it is.
So the placating start before the bill is even passed. Just wait till people are paying the FairTax on their health care, etc.Why does the FairTax have the prebate. And what is gas mining?Discussed a thousand times. To placate the nannies.
Gas mining is the extraction of natural gas and coal seam methane for commercial use. A huge tax shelter industry. I'm sure a lot of the people in that industry fund ringers to come online and post against the FT day after day. I would if I were them.And I'm sure the gas mining industry paid a lot to get that tax benefit. And after the FairTax, they and every other industry in the country will be trying to game the FairTax in their favor.
Totally irrelevant. The bill that will replace the current system hasn't been written. It's certainly not the FairTax.the Flat Tax gets rid of them.So what is the Flat Tax bill and how many sponsors does it have? How large is the Flat Tax organization on a grass roots basis?
Why would NTU think that enacting a FairTax would help reduce income taxes. Dummies! We'd have both.
I have wrote them back with their silly member surveys telling them this, and now this! No thanks, my membership fee is staying home.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POSTING THIS.
Winners and Losers under the 'FairTax'
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1493038/posts
Double-taxation anyone?
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